Be Careful with PPV-Good Video

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Permalink Reply by Eric C. on May 26, 2010 at 3:40pm

Good find.
I have several coworkers that have similar yet less sever experience with PPV during initial suppression. The more I see this type of outcome, the more I am apt to use it only in overhaul.

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Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on May 27, 2010 at 6:21pm

Don’t pull hoses out until overhaul is complete. Don’t introduce PPV while crews are inside. Don't vent above the fire floor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vves0Uj94s&playnext_from=TL&...

Good video of PPV done right. Inside cameras show conditions improving before attack line enters the house. Also shows insufficient vent opening and what bad things happen when you introduce PPV.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on May 27, 2010 at 10:54pm

Jason, good video Brother! We in the south of the county, at least here, set our PPV up at the pointing away from the door. When the fire is knocked down and the Officer calls for ventilation, a window is taken completely and we turn the fan into the structure. I over simplified this to cut down on space, but as always numerous factors effect good ventilation, but that attack line stays in place. I'm not a fan of burns or getting chased out of a building.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Roe on June 1, 2010 at 8:53am

Excellent video - glad everyone made it out safe. Brings up a question of how would this fire have been different if PPA was used instead of PPV? We are just delving into possibly using PPA interested in hearing some feedback on it.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Becknell on June 6, 2010 at 9:04pm

This was a good video. Personally I think PPA probably would have helped in this particular situation. This is the biggest problem I have seen with PPV is we get lulled into a false security sometimes and use it to vent "smoke" and don't use properly when it comes time to actually vent "heat". But of course for PPA to work you have to know where the fire is located and take out the widow of the fire room before the fan is set into place and before the attack team enters. We have trained with it a time or two but due to staffing in an all volunteer fire department, knock down is usually accomplished before the fan can set in place and we just use it blow the smoke out so we can see for overhaul. Of course the one thing I did hear mentioned in the video that may have been the perfect answer for the problem is the use of a TIC. We have one on each Engine and Ladder and the TIC has saved us from almost being in really bad situations a few times, I have no doubt that the use of the TIC probably saved 4 from injury or death at a commercial fire with a basement.

Dave Roe said:

Excellent video - glad everyone made it out safe. Brings up a question of how would this fire have been different if PPA was used instead of PPV? We are just delving into possibly using PPA interested in hearing some feedback on it.

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Permalink Reply by Larry P on June 20, 2010 at 8:22pm

Great post! It's very nice. Thank you so much for your post.

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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on February 3, 2011 at 5:12pm

Positive pressure ventilation and positive pressure attack are very good methods when properly applied and coordinated.  vertical and horizontal ventilation all have their places and applications.  We have to read the smoke and the building to determine which type to apply and when.

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Permalink Reply by Art "Chief Reason" Goodrich on February 13, 2011 at 7:42pm

John Kriska is one of the pre-eminent PPV/PPA instructors.

He teaches proper and safe application.

And he has been doing it for many years.

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Permalink Reply by P.J. Norwood on February 13, 2011 at 9:41pm

 

Monitor the exhaust point!

PPV is a great tool for the tool box. But, it must be used with caution as demonstrated in the video. Coordination with the attack team and an adequate exhaust point are critical. During PPV training you must test and practice using PPV so it can be used effectively during real incidents.

 There are also some new practices that should be utilized. In the past we have been taught that we must "cone" the entire doorway. But, we have now learned we should leave 4 to 6" at the top of the door not in the coned space. This will help the IC monitor conditions and monitor the effectiveness of the exhaust port. If the exhaust port is too small and becomes blocked, clogged or closed off you will have smoke and heat push out above the coned area. When an exhaust port becomes blocked the heat and fire will be pushed to other areas. The IC must be aware of where it’s being pushed and if that changes!

PPV is not a "set it and forget it" tactic! It must be monitored closely.

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Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on February 13, 2011 at 10:00pm

I shamelessly stole these clips for a class that I gave on PPA.  In fact, I stole the class outline from Chiefs Garcia and Kaufmann.  And now I feel bad:-(   Not.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Beck on February 16, 2011 at 1:28am

Even though there was an exhaust opening, it was of inadequate size and the introduction of ineffective PPA was likely the culprit of this extreme fire behavior.

Our modern day fuel loads have the potential to create an insane amount of BTUs and combine that with high volume blowers and it only furthers the need for larger exhausts. Optimally an exhaust should be two to three times larger than the ventilation opening.

We need to increase our focus on ventilation education, rather than simply training on ventilation skills.

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Permalink Reply by John Kriska on February 16, 2011 at 7:10pm

Anyone interested in a PPV/PPA Powerpoint Presentation, go to my web-site www.kriskafiretraining.com.  There are two PPTs that you can download and use in training, one is on the basics of PPV, the second, covers PPv and PPA.  After viewing, if you have any quesations, please contact me and I will do my best to answer your question(s).

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