Highrise packs

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Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on April 23, 2008 at 8:23pm

OKay, we need an official name for this fold. Some are calling it the "Bundles" , I learned it as the "Metro Pack."
As far as I'm concerned we can call it the "LeBlanc." Or how about this, the "Cal I forny!" or maybe the "CAS" roll which stands for Cool As Hell! ofcourse that name would need an alternative PC monicor such as Compressed Action System..... but I digress

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Permalink Reply by Wayne Benner Jr on April 28, 2008 at 8:08am

We use 2 bundles of 1 3/4 (200') with combo nozzle. I understand every one using the 2.5 with a solid bore. But it must be very difficult to use once inside the fire apartment.
Could you not go with a 2.5 wyed to a 1 3/4. (100 each)The nozzle issue is the same I prefer the solid bore but the department Chief likes the Combo.

Beside's pressure/ volume why the 2.5 through out the load?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on April 28, 2008 at 8:34am

Pressure and Volume are the main reasons. We may not have enough pressure to overcome friction loss in a smaller line and reinforced gpm is needed to expell the fire's BTU's.

A mop up line is fine but we try to reduce weight for crews climbing up the stairs. Having to carry 2 1/2" and 1 3/4" makes for a lot of hose. We may not know how much fire we'll have until we get there, may as well take a line that will handle both small and big fires.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Sorrentino on April 28, 2008 at 8:45am

We have set up our high rise bag with 2 - 75' 13/4" lines with Elkhart 50/150 nozzles with breakaway nozzles with 1" SB tip and a gated "Y". We also have an extender bag wqith 50' of 3" line.
The lines can be set up as two 75' lines or at the fire floor connected to make 1 -150' line.
The nozzles flow 150 gpm @ 50 psi or in the SB config,210 gpm at 50 psi.

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Permalink Reply by James Weaver on April 28, 2008 at 3:47pm

Our current configuration is a standpipe kit, which contains a 6 ft section of 3 inch to come off the standpipe connection, to a gated wye 21/2 to 2-21/2s reduced to 11/2. the kit also contains an extra hand wheel for the standpipe connection, pipe wrench, wire brush, large cresent wrench, 2 spanners and a short peice of rope to tie the handle in the open position, so it doesnt get accidently closed. The highrise kit is 125 ft 2" hose with a 7/8 Pok smooth bore nozzle. ..we went ths way for a couple of different reasons, but ultimately we get excellent flow rate out of the 2" hose with the smooth bore and with limited manpower easier to deploy than the 21/2" . We went with light weight components where ever possiible, on gates, wrenchs ect. to lighten the load. We chose 125' length after doing some training . we found we could reach everywhere we needed to with 100' but wanted the insurance reach. we also color coded the hose to ensure it didnt loaded on regular preconnects... hope this is some help to you.......... good luck. jim

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Permalink Reply by Bob Franklin on April 29, 2008 at 2:06pm

Hello Bob,
Good choice. When I was in the training division, we did an in depth study of high rise packs. We were using 1-3/4 with Elkhart SM 20 automatic nozzles. Using a flow meter and in-line gauges we found the in most cases we were delivering around 48 to 70 gallons per minute. We got the local sprinkler dealer to help us with this problem. First he pointed out that the stand pipe system is designed to be tested using 2-1/2 hose and smooth bore tips. The system is not designed for the use of fog nozzles due to the high pressure, (usually 100 psi at the tip) and the low flows associated with the 1-3/4.

Basically put like this. The standpipe is a 12 gauge shot gun. It is designed to use 12 gauge ammunition (2-1/2 with smooth bore tip). Being firefighters, the 12 gauge shell were to heavy to carry, so why not carry a 22 bullet instead.( 1-3/4 or 1-/12 with a fog nozle) A 22 bullet will not fit into a 12 guage shot gun but, lets take a spent 12 guage shell drill out the fire pin to where a 22 bullet will it (2-1/2 to 1-1/2 reducer). Now I can use a 22 shell in the 12 guage shot gun.
Yes, you may be able to use it, it may fire, but it will not be effective. So basically it boils down to 1-3/4 was not designed to be used on standpipe systems due to the pressures needed to over come friction loss and nozzle pressures.

2-1/2 with a smoothbore nozzle requires low pressures to overcome friction loss and at 50 psi nozzle pressure will deliver large amounts of water. Heres another thought, what about all the debris that breaks loose in the piping as well as the stuff that has been stuffed into the siamese. Most if not all will pass through a smoothbore where it will stop up a fog nozzle. Take care and be safe.

Bob Franklin

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Permalink Reply by George H. Potter on April 29, 2008 at 4:50pm

Hello over there,
Have any of you guys tried the new high flow / low pressure combination nozzles by Akron, Elkheart and a couple of other manufacturers? I have a Spanish made one that delivers approx. 220 gpm at 75 psi. on a 1 3/4 inch line. As I have seen in the literature, the USA made "guns" meet the same characteristics.

A typical Spanish intervention in a structural fire (residential or small business type activity) is a 1 inch line with an 80 gpm
combination nozzle at 100 psi. If the fire volune warrents more water, they will go to the 1 3/4 in. or even 2 3/4 in. lines. The major problems here are; reduced manning (4, 3 and even 2 FF crews, and substandard public water supply. However, building construction here tends to be more fire resistant than over there, cement and bricks, although the contents are quite similar.

Take care over there,

George Potter

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Permalink Reply by Bob Shovald on May 1, 2008 at 10:41am

George -
We tested the 150/50 nozzles and choose to place the Akron Assualt on our apparatus. We use a shut off with a 15/16" slug tip to make the combination a break-apart nozzle. We have had great response to the new nozzles. We flow 185 gpm from the ss and 165 gpm when using the combination tip. We were concerned about hose kinking with the low pessure, how ever we found that with the high gpm this hasn't been an issue. And for ss guys like myself I just twist the combination tip off at the beginning of the tour.
Bob

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Permalink Reply by Brian Gover on May 3, 2008 at 9:11am

we just got a pressure gauge. how do you recommend we protect it from getting broken?

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Permalink Reply by Howie Smith on May 23, 2008 at 9:47pm

Brian, how about finding a bad length of 2-1/2" or 3" hose and cutting a small section out. You could spray paint it red or something and tuck the gauge inside the hose?

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Permalink Reply by Art Zern on May 23, 2008 at 10:20pm

Mike,

Where did you find the "street" elbow/angle adapter with pressure gage. We have the angle adapters and have the pressure gages mounted in our wyes. I tried to find the elbows with gages, guess I didn't look in the right places. I have seen them but I began to think they may have been shop fabricated. Any help would be appreciated.

Art

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Permalink Reply by Art Zern on May 23, 2008 at 10:24pm

Several years ago while we still had combinations on our high-rise packs, a top floor fire in a 10 story office building proved the "debris" advantage to the smooth-bore. After a couple minutes of junk flowing, the combo nozzle clogged with debris. Shortly thereafter, we changed to smooth-bores.

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