i have a probie that wont stop asking why! and he is a wreck on scenes

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Permalink Reply by Doug Ott on November 19, 2008 at 11:03pm

Bob, He's 19. He IS a damn kid and is going to be a kid for a while. Did you take on the big-brother role and lead by example or lead by telling him how things are to be done? I've worked for guys that lead by example and laid out their expectations from day one and others that lead by waiting until you're on the call and telling you how to do things while you're doing them (read "micromanaging"). I closed my ears to the guys that talked a lot. Working for the guy who laid out his expectations was easy because I knew what he wanted from the start. He let me do things the way I was trained and didn't interfere unless he had to. We had a few bumps in the road but after a short time, we adapted fine to each other. I wasn't the best example setter in my earlier years as a full-timer and he was the first one to sit me down and help me straighten out. I'll leave it to the other guys to say if it worked or not.

The "why" thing...it's something about these younger guys, and I'm surprised you're not guilty of it being only 23, but they have to know "why". Knowing why gives them reason and purpose for doing what you're asking of them. It's not a bad thing, just annoying. But it's essential to get them motivated. No need to stress about it. I was working with this guy that always asked why and where we were going when we got in the truck (not to a call, just to get out of the house). I used to let it annoy me and tell him that he'll find out when we get there. After a few months of thinking about what I was doing, I changed my behavior. He's one of the hardest-working and smartest new guys we have and if I kept treating him like that I was going to "turn him off". That would have been very counter-productive because I rely on him for a lot of info. Especially when it comes to construction. That's his side-job and he definitely knows way more than I do on that subject.

Have you ever read "Firefighting Reflections" or "Cap'n" by Leo Stapleton? In the lieutenant chapter of "Reflections" he talks about his first company as an Lt. and how he didn't sit them down and share what he expects on calls and behavior in the firehouse. After he did so, his company ran smoothly and both sides understood each other. I'm not a company officer so I can't see it from your eyes, but I am the senior fireman in our company. One thing I like to say is "If you don't take pride in your work then no one will be proud of you." That includes washing the truck, cleaning bathrooms, sweeping and mopping, doing dishes...everything. How you work at the firehouse bleeds into how you work on scenes. I get ill when I hear a guy complain about cleaning toilets. It's an easy job that doesn't take long to do. The most cleaning toilets is going to do is keep him away from his email or recliner an extra 10 minutes. Sorry, I got on my soap box a little.

Not to sound like a kiss-a**, but since we're in the "Pride and Ownership" discussion, have you seen the half-hour video or read Chief Lasky's book? The book is a good, and quick read and doesn't take that long. But, the video really drives it home. Or go to youtube and search for "Bobby Halton Keeping Tradition Alive". There are two parts but well worth watching. There is also a podcast on this site where Chief Lasky discusses what "the rookie" needs to be told.

http://www.fireengineering.com/podcasts/podcastDetails.html?id=626

I'm going to shut up now because this is getting kinda long. I'm probably going to start repeating myself soon. I hope this has helped in some way. Good luck with everything and stay safe.

Doug

Permalink Reply by bob hille on November 20, 2008 at 1:45am

thats great advice thanks! now that you mention it i was and still am on lots of things (ie company officer stuff) the guy that asks why, but i will usually wait until after the call to ask my questions. he tries to do it on scene, and that just adds to the stress of the whole scene especialy when your the ic. ill have to work on that with him. and sense writing that post he has almost 180ed. its rather nice to see him starting to some what blossum. and i have asked the others to help but none the less i know just what your refering to.
as for the mentoring or microing i would have to say its alittle of both but mainly the mentoring side. as im still learning to my own duties so its hard for me micro him as much as ive seen others do. but ive done it before i know.

all in all i am happy for the help thanks so much

bob "the rookie" hille

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on November 20, 2008 at 6:56pm

Bob, be patient Brother. My daughter is 19, and I still need to remind her to pay her car insurance. As a LT. I know where your at, but be patient and let him know you want him to succeed. Let your entire company know you want them to make it. Doug's references are perfect, nicely put Doug. Remember you are 23 and we always learn, 2 years or 25, that's why we are brothers. We as company officers are truely our brothers keepers. This doesn't mean kiss his "sector C" as Chief Lasky nicely puts it. Mentor him, work with him, TRAIN him, to pass the knowledge you give him onto the next probie that comes into the house. GO TIGERS!!!!!!

Jeff

Permalink Reply by bob hille on November 21, 2008 at 12:36pm

. Thanks Jeff. I have talked with him a little about what’s been going on and now I’m just waiting for him to get to use the knowledge and thinks we talked about. We had an issue that I really thought he would struggle with the other day, but he has really come thru on it. my alarm clock was going off and I was not there well being that it was annoying him and the rest of the crew. He jimmied the lock and got in to shut it off. Well there was some damage done to the door. When I found it there was no one around and I send out messages wanting know what everyone knew about it. Well after getting no reply’s I had to take it up the chain. When I told him that the cap needed a statement about what he knew, he immediately asked me what was up and that he was sorry for doing it and all what not. I really figured that he would try and hide from it be he confessed and that saved his a**, as the chief wanted him gone for it. I’m happy he used his head cause that would have been the end of him here and I would hate to see that. oh and hell ya go tigers!

Permalink Reply by Marty Mayes on November 21, 2008 at 4:21pm

Bob, The best character trait I look for in my guys is to be decisive. I can train them how to fight fires and the like but I cannot teach them how to make a decision. This trait is often manifested among the young as arrogance. A young adult who knows how to make a decision and stick to it, is years beyond his/her peers these days. So I tend to see them display a little more attitude than others. It is part of learning and maturing.

By the way, us old timers can gripe all we want about the arrogant and questioning youth but we were little different. Just go ask the old guys that worked our rookie years. I include myself as a test subject. I asked alot questions and remember being taught by patient barn bosses. The only difference is probably I did not use "why" as much as some other annoyance.The fire service has transcended many years and generations, so I am sure this issue presented itself in past generations. I feel that it is up to us, the leaders, bosses, seniors and company officers to show the way. Tradition is a living, breathing emotion. It cannot be told, it has to be shown. That takes time. Be patient and show the way and I bet this kid will surprise you.

Good luck!

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on November 21, 2008 at 8:26pm

Bob, at least he admitted doing it, that shows he'll accept responsibility. Since you didn't get a reply from anyone, I would as the company officer, talk to the whole crew or shift, whatever the case is and reinforce what you expect and don't expext out of them. Before you do though, make sure you know yourself. Ask advice and think before talking. Damage to F.D. property can never be swept under the rug. E-mail me if I can help further. Halligan1210@aol.com

Stay Safe,
Jeff

Permalink Reply by Doug Ott on December 5, 2008 at 10:45pm

Hey Bob, How have things been going?

Permalink Reply by bob hille on December 12, 2008 at 4:53pm

Doug

Things are getting better, he has really come around. At the same time he is still struggling with letting his emotions speak and act for him. I.E. we had a good rocking house fire about a week ago and the other day as a joke my chauffeur and fire fighter took his nice smoked helmet and cleaned it for him. You know just to keep him looking sharp. When he found it he came to me and said that he thinks his helmet has been stolen and replaced with some one else’s. I must say he impressed me when he did the right thing and came to me about it. Once I shed some light as to what might have happened to him he got really mad and stormed out. After about an hour he came back to my office and wanted to apologize for his out burst. And wanted to know why the guys had done it to him. He had it in his mind that they did it to be mean and embarrass him but I reassured him that was not the case. They were just razing him. I also told him that in order to be one of the guys one must deal with the jokes and pranks, but you must also stand up for your self and when the time is right joke and prank right back to them. It just makes me smile and laugh inside to see someone starting to be accepted as fire fighter and not just a dumb probie.

Bob

Permalink Reply by Doug Ott on December 12, 2008 at 5:06pm

Good thing he had the sense to apologize instead of taking matters into his own hands. Sounds like you've got a pretty decent kid on your crew.

I'd be more worried if the guys weren't messing with me.

bob hille said:

Doug

Things are getting better, he has really come around. At the same time he is still struggling with letting his emotions speak and act for him. I.E. we had a good rocking house fire about a week ago and the other day as a joke my chauffeur and fire fighter took his nice smoked helmet and cleaned it for him. You know just to keep him looking sharp. When he found it he came to me and said that he thinks his helmet has been stolen and replaced with some one else’s. I must say he impressed me when he did the right thing and came to me about it. Once I shed some light as to what might have happened to him he got really mad and stormed out. After about an hour he came back to my office and wanted to apologize for his out burst. And wanted to know why the guys had done it to him. He had it in his mind that they did it to be mean and embarrass him but I reassured him that was not the case. They were just razing him. I also told him that in order to be one of the guys one must deal with the jokes and pranks, but you must also stand up for your self and when the time is right joke and prank right back to them. It just makes me smile and laugh inside to see someone starting to be accepted as fire fighter and not just a dumb probie.

Bob

Permalink Reply by bob hille on December 24, 2008 at 2:38pm

Doug Ott said:

Good thing he had the sense to apologize instead of taking matters into his own hands. Sounds like you've got a pretty decent kid on your crew.

I'd be more worried if the guys weren't messing with me.

bob hille said:

Doug

Things are getting better, he has really come around. At the same time he is still struggling with letting his emotions speak and act for him. I.E. we had a good rocking house fire about a week ago and the other day as a joke my chauffeur and fire fighter took his nice smoked helmet and cleaned it for him. You know just to keep him looking sharp. When he found it he came to me and said that he thinks his helmet has been stolen and replaced with some one else’s. I must say he impressed me when he did the right thing and came to me about it. Once I shed some light as to what might have happened to him he got really mad and stormed out. After about an hour he came back to my office and wanted to apologize for his out burst. And wanted to know why the guys had done it to him. He had it in his mind that they did it to be mean and embarrass him but I reassured him that was not the case. They were just razing him. I also told him that in order to be one of the guys one must deal with the jokes and pranks, but you must also stand up for your self and when the time is right joke and prank right back to them. It just makes me smile and laugh inside to see someone starting to be accepted as fire fighter and not just a dumb probie.

Bob

yeah i know that would really worry me too. well to all in your area i hope you have a merry christmass and good new too!