1-3/4" vs. 2-1/2" Hi-rise pack

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Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on September 12, 2008 at 7:09am

Bro
I did not read all the posts, but I also want to put my 2 cents in for 2 1/2" hose. Manpower should not be an issue when it comes to standpipe operations, as the fire will be in a class 1 or 2 building by the most part, and contained. Either by default, or by design you should wait for a second engine company. Due to EWD (extreme wind drivin fires) phenomenon, the ladder companies should NOT open up until told to do so by the engine company officers. So there is some manpower right there.
One point I want to make to everyone is that all l standpipe kits should contain an inline gauge. This is not a "nice" thing to have, but should be a mandatory safety tool. It takes the onus off the pump operators, and identifies water problems, which in my opinion, outside of health and MVA LODD issues, is the leading killer of FFs. You DEFINATLY need inline gauges when you use 2 1/2" hose.
Be safe

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Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on September 12, 2008 at 1:34pm

Hey Mike,

I agree with the 2 1/2" guys. GPM puts the fire out. So many times the information the first arriving companies recieve upon arrival is going to be sketchy at best, so they probably won't know exactly what they are dealing with from the ground floor. Also, any information they recieve is old information as far as the fire is concerned and will be even older by the time crews reach the fire. The fire could be MUCH larger then reported by the time crews get to it. Another point that must be considered is that your people can only carry up so much equipment. If you load them down like pack mules with all the different "options" they may make it to the correct floor but they likely will be too tired to work. It's far better to streamline what they take up. We use a 200 ft. 2 1/2" with 1 1/4" smoothbore, and the appropriate appliances. Small fires can be put out with the larger line as you know but a small line can't put out a large fire. Dave McGrail's book on High-Rise and Standpipe buildings is a fantastic text, I highly recommend it. This text will help you communicate many of the aspects of High-Rise to those members of your department who will resist changing. When we were upgrading to the correct equipment I came up quite a bit of opposition to the smoothbore nozzle. The M&M test McGrail explains in his book will help them see the light. If that doesn't work, take them to one of your older buildings, have them flow the line. After 45 minutes of seeing brackish water flow, not to mention the smell, they will soon realize that the fog nozzles are going to clog and clogged nozzles will kill firefighters. Also, you might check out the High-Rise Group. Maybe some of the discussions there will help you. Oh! One last point. I've been finding out that the pressure needed for the smaller lines tend to cause failures in combination sprinkler/standpipe systems. Those systems are only as strong as their weakest soldered joint, and boy do they make a mess.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Lewis on July 20, 2011 at 12:39am

I just came across your post about 2 1/2 after a small dispute about friction loss. would love to see your PP. Thanks Jeff

frostywite@aol.com

Robert Owens said:

We also have both. Typically we use the 2 1/2 for large commercial occupancies that are uncompartmented, and anything with stand pipe operations.

We use the 1 3/4 for leader lines (which we deploy mostly on multi family dwellings), and small compartmented commercial occpancies like food service etc.

I love the 2 1/2 and think it is one of the most underutlized and trained on tools in the fire service.

Shoot me your email and I will email you the Power Point presentation we used to introduce it to our FD and all of the testing we did with it.

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Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on July 20, 2011 at 2:14pm

Jeff, buy David McGrails book Standpipe Operations from Penwell.  You will never need to read another book about the subject.  All your answers too anyone's arguments will be addressed there.

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