Safety Lines

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard Michitsch on June 6, 2008 at 12:33pm

Art,
I am trained in technical rope rescue for an Industrial Fire Department for a Pharmaceutical company. The two sites that we service have numerous confined spaces that include Tanks (10,000 gallon and higher), Tunnels, Manholes, and below grade rooms (pump houses) to name a few. The site policy for an entry into a confined space (by worker and rescuer) is Class 3 Harness and tag line. In the event there is a rescue each rescuer is required to don a Rescue Class 3 Harness and a tag line. The reasoning is that each rescuer is independent and can move freely within the confined space environment. In the event an extraction is necessary they can be removed without affecting the other rescuer.
DON”T be the next one, BE safe!
Richard

Permalink Reply by Kevin Schroeder on June 6, 2008 at 10:31pm

We run with a safety line (preferably a different color) attached to each rescuer. While this can lead to line handling problems it allows us to physically account for each of our members. We train with the (Number of people plus one) rule for deciding how many lines we need. One for each person and a load line. This being said, we have done some training evolutions where we prussik'd off of someone else's safety and attached it to a second person. This has only been done in training and due to a lack of ropes due to running multiple evolutions and splitting the team to work in two spaces at once.

I am not sure that just having some slack between rescuers would work when it comes to removal. If you are all tied together and one of you goes down, you are all directly connected to that person. It limits how you move, when you move, and would limit your ability to freely move about and complete activities without coordinating with the whole group.

Permalink Reply by Richard Michitsch on June 7, 2008 at 6:50am

Kevin,
We train and operate similar to you and your organization.
I like the idea of the prusik with a second rescuer on the line. Although it is best to work with individual lines, this has some benefits. Such as, if additional manpower is needed to a specific rescuer in the h***, this would allow an easier way to get down to the initial rescuer. Following a color could be difficult since the rescuers are in packs and are in the dark for the most part.
In the past during drills, when I have run out of enough rope for all of the rescuers, I have used the back end of the rope to tag another rescuer (especially the backup teams, most of our rope bags have a minimum of 300 feet of rope). I know that it would be preferable to have different colors for each rescuer. To remedy this, I had the rope tender add a small piece of medical paper tape to the line every couple of feet. It’s not the best, but sometimes you need to do the extreme to get the job done.
DON”T be the next one, BE safe!
Richard

Permalink Reply by Art Bloomer on June 7, 2008 at 2:59pm

I agree with both of you that the safest way is with individual safety's. I did observe the drill that went on with just the one safety and it did seem to work ok. The slack is only for removal as it gives the surface/outside crew time to get that rescuer off the line and prepare to recieve the next. They did not have any problems with mobility in the vault they were in. If you can figure out a way to keep the h*** clear of lines it makes thing go better. We have been using the new pulleys that CMC put out, that can open to accept line while still attached to the tripod/rigging plate. This allows you to keep the safety off to the side down low along with the air/com lines, and only put it into a haul situation if needed. We also have a z-rig set up and anchored ready to piggy back to the safety if needed.

Another question that someone raised....victim out of the space first....or last? We always do victim last, even if the vic is awake and oriented. I know it might be harder to haul...but.

Permalink Reply by Richard Michitsch on June 7, 2008 at 3:48pm

Art,
In most experiences that I have encountered, it was necessary that the rescuers were needed in the h*** to manipulate the victim to get them out. After which the rescuers come out.
On a side note, how do you feel about the use of 4-to-1 mechanical advantages (for vertical raises)? We have started to use them more than Z-Rigs. I find that using 4-to-1s uses less manpower, uses less of an area, and moves the most weight.
DON’T be the next one, BE safe!
Richard

Permalink Reply by Jim Rigstad on June 7, 2008 at 5:17pm

A safety line for each rescuer is our SOP, Each rescuer and his tender can keep his line from tangling easier than trying to keep the slack between rescuers clear in the space. In most situations the victim is removed prior to the rescuers. First rescuer in is the last person out, he is carrying the four gas meter. Of course we are using supplied air so air consumption is not an issue.

Permalink Reply by Art Bloomer on June 7, 2008 at 10:43pm

Rich,

We use a 4:1 for hauling and keep the z-rig set up for emergency extraction. Its easy to piggy back and reset. The 4:1 makes it easy to lift in cramp spaces or with low manpower.

Art

Permalink Reply by Kevin Schroeder on June 10, 2008 at 10:44am

We also keep a rescuer inside to assist with manipulating the pt if needed to extract. Sometimes you need to lift or rotate the SKED or device just enough to clear an opening. We have a 4:1 rigged with 300' of line that we use for drops of 50' or so, it is fast, simple, and uses little manpower. It works great for putting an operation into action fast. The initial rescue response with the 4:1, tripod, and a couple of T3WPB belay's you are in service even before the entire team is assembled.

However, we use Z-Rigs extensively. We run the RPM system for most of our longer/deeper operations, and when switching to raise, it converts to a 3:1 Z-rig with the addition of a single pulley and Dbl Prusik's. We also incorporate a PMP into all of our T3WPB safeties. This allows for easier take up of slack and the ability to convert Immediately to a retreival system with the addition of the same system of a pulley and Dbl prusik's.

Permalink Reply by Tim Rhudy on August 22, 2008 at 1:25pm

Hey brothers I have a question and maybe I’m just an FNG that should just do it the way “We have always done it” but that is not in my nature so here goes. Tag lines are great because if I go down my brothers can pull me out right. So why is it that CS is the only technical discipline we use them in? That brings me to an another question were do you attach your tag lines?

Permalink Reply by Richard Michitsch on August 23, 2008 at 8:49am

Tim,
I wouldn’t say that confined space is the only specialty in the fire service that utilizes tag lines. We utilize tag lines for High Angle Rescue, Water Rescue, FAST (RIT) team operations, and HazMat operations.
As far as an attachment point we have always used the center of the back attachment point on the class 3 harness. This keeps the line out of the way of the rescuer and allows for an in line drag when an extraction is needed. Of course this is all subject to the specific situation at hand. There are also spreader bars that can be used that are attached to the shoulder rings of the class 3 harness.
Don't BE the next one, BE safe!
Richard Michitsch

Permalink Reply by Kevin Schroeder on August 26, 2008 at 11:02pm

I agree with Richard. We use safety (tag) lines for Confined Space, High Angle, Water Rescue, etc. We also attach in the same place, rear dorsal conneciton point. Have only used spreader bars with shoulder points for raising and lowering, and I am not sure how it would work for a tag line. Seems like a lot of hardware to drag around on your back. We also use anklets to connect our safety lines when doing entries into horizontal spaces such as culverts and sewer piping. This allows for a direct rearward pull and avoids folding our rescuer in half trying to pull them from the rear dorsal connection when they are crawling on their faces in the sludge.

Most fire departments that I am familiar with use safety lines for almost all technical rescue evolutions. The only teams that I know that use SRT (single rope technique) are some of the mountain SAR teams out west where they have to pack everything they use in on their backs. They may laugh about our big "wheel barrows" but I will take one any day, and our new "Heavy" Wheelbarrow gets here in October. Stay safe!!

Permalink Reply by Tim Rhudy on August 27, 2008 at 7:22am

Lots of questions then. I come from a small department so most of our training comes from out side. We use SRT and traditional two-rope method. So I’m familiar with both techniques.
As far as water I have always been taught that the only time you are attached to a line is if you have a detachable ring and you are doing a “live bait” rescue swim out and get pulled back.
Haz-Mat I have never seen it done.
As far as attachment point’s we use the dorsal as well. I was looking for a different way and the anklets sounds better than getting wedged in a h***. We will try it out.

Thanks for the info. I don’t want to get my guys hurt just because I did not know.

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