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Knox Box
If anyone has a written policy or guideline on their departments use of Knox box's , please send it my way. the reason i ask is that we for have had these located within the Fire district, each chief controls his own district what i have run into is that my Fearless board repremaned me for have a Knox Box key on our first due engine , ina case myself or one of the asst. chiefs did not show up [ we each carry one]. So what i want to do is write up a Policy/guideline on the use and where they will placed. Thanks.
chief169@ssfd6.org
chief169@ssfd6.org
Views: 350
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on
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-Mike, in the City of Albuquerque the policy is simple. Commercial occupancies are not required to have a Knox Box on their facility. If they choose to install one they are not legally required to locate it in a specific area however, the Fire Marshal's Office has a set of guidelines that they make available to a business owner to facilitate installation/location of the Knox Box and what should be inside the Knox Box.
-Simply put, the Knox Box should be located not more than 2 feet from the main door to the occupancy, mounted conspicuously, not higher than 66 inches from the ground/floor/threshold. An entire facility master key(s) and alarm code(s) should be inside the Knox Box.
-If contacted, the Fire Marshal will certainly recommend the occupancy owner/manager install a Knox Box as it facilitates firefighter entry, reduces damage and speeds up firefighting/ems operations.
-Installation and maintenance of the Knox Box is the responsibility of the occupancy owner and/or manager.
-And wow, I'm more than a little surprised to hear that someone caught hell for putting the Knox Key on apparatus. What he hell is the Knox Box for if firefighters cannot access the masters, having to wait for someone else to arrive?!?!?
-In Albuquerque the keys are on EVERY piece of apparatus; all 23 engines, 8 ladders, 18 ambulances 3 squads and all 4 Batt Chiefs. Interestingly enough neither the Fire Chief nor the four Deputy Chiefs carry Knox keys.
-If you can't trust your firefighters with a key then they shouldn't be firefighters.
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Permalink Reply by Mike France on
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Mike- I know what you are saying, this key was placed there prior to my term, I being one who was thinking out of the box decided to put one on the ETA , so just in case the tanker responded to a call while the engine was out on a call and they needed it they had it. But so much for thinking out of the Box
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-Still confused as to why this was a problem.
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They were concerned over that the fact that a FF at anytime could take the key and enter a business after hours , as i tryed to explain if they did they more than likely would have alarm sysytem, their a goup of 5 beyond use , need to get with the times.
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-Incredibly foolish thinking. After all, isn't that the exact point, a firefighter being able to get in whenever they need to?
-I think I understand what they were saying about being able to get in but if you can't trust your firefighters then maybe those people shouldn't be firefighters. In fact, the whole basis of the Knox Box is trust, otherwise the entire system breaks down.
Mike France said:They were concerned over that the fact that a FF at anytime could take the key and enter a business after hours , as i tryed to explain if they did they more than likely would have alarm sysytem, their a goup of 5 beyond use , need to get with the times.
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Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on
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If I missed something, please tell me; but the Knox key is locked into a box that can only be opened with a code. Each opening is time stamped with the person that opened it and the duration of time that it was out of the box. It seems that if there is any question that a key was used, you download the box info and check.
I'd be pushing that we force the door on all "bells and smells" calls, or wait for the key holder to show up at O' dark-thirty before making entry. I think the phrase is I'm looking for is; "Quit cryin' or I'll give you something to cry about."
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-Actually, all the Knox Boxes in use in Albuquerque do not have a code nor a way to determine who has opened the box; it is a keyed box. I believe it is dependent on what the business owner has purchased. But of all the Knox Boxes I've seen they are all the same keyed box. I have never seen the type you mentioned using codes and recording info.
Larry Lasich said:If I missed something, please tell me; but the Knox key is locked into a box that can only be opened with a code. Each opening is time stamped with the person that opened it and the duration of time that it was out of the box. It seems that if there is any question that a key was used, you download the box info and check.
I'd be pushing that we force the door on all "bells and smells" calls, or wait for the key holder to show up at O' dark-thirty before making entry. I think the phrase is I'm looking for is; "Quit cryin' or I'll give you something to cry about."
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The box that we use is secured in the rig and draws electric power. The Knox key goes into a key slot and is turned, this locks the key into the box (it can't be removed without destroying the box). There is a keypad on the box face and after you enter your number (password) a status light changes from red to green (the key is unlocked), you turn the key in the box and remove it. Then a strobe flashes, indicating that the key is not trapped in the box.
Knox should have a video of the product, because I'm sure I mangled the description. Sorry.
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-Very interesting. I'm certain the only reason its not in use here is financial. I assume its cheaper to attached the older style Knox Box, a keyed strong box with masters for the occupancy held inside, to the occupancy wall and leave the Knox Box access key with the Fire Dept. That is the key we keep on all the rigs.
Larry Lasich said:The box that we use is secured in the rig and draws electric power. The Knox key goes into a key slot and is turned, this locks the key into the box (it can't be removed without destroying the box). There is a keypad on the box face and after you enter your number (password) a status light changes from red to green (the key is unlocked), you turn the key in the box and remove it. Then a strobe flashes, indicating that the key is not trapped in the box.
Knox should have a video of the product, because I'm sure I mangled the description. Sorry.
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