Where firefighters come to talk training
Scenario #2: Multiple Dwelling Cellar Fire
You have been dispatched to 4527 Park Ave. on a reported fire. You arrive to find a serious fire in progress in the cellar of a four story multiple dwelling of ordinary construction. There are exposure buildings of similar type and construction on either side, fifteen feet away. It is 2330 hours and the temperature is 82 degrees F.
The interior cellar stairway is directly beneath the main stairs and is protected by a fire door on the first floor. The fire door has self-closing hinges. There is also an exterior basement entrance located at the front of the building. To access the basement from the front, you must descend three steps to the exterior wood door.
On arrival, heat conditions are severe, but the first floor is tenable. There are no alarms sounding. There are occupants attempting to escape the fire building via the rear fire escape. There are also many people exiting the building via the main stairwell.
Appropriate Engine Companies have secured their own water supply, and the first-due Truck has been placed directly in front of the fire building.
You arrive along with two engines and a truck company. Three firefighters and an Officer man each apparatus. All subsequent alarms will bring an additional two engines and a truck.
You are the Incident Commander.
1. Would additional alarms be necessary?
a. Yes, a second alarm is required due to the life hazard
b. No, the first alarm assignment is adequate to handle this assignment.
c. Scenario information is inadequate to make the decision. More information would be needed from interior companies.
d. Yes, special call one engine company and one Ladder company to the scene.
2. Regarding ordinary construction, what would be your major concern?
a. Collapse of the parapet wall in the initial stages of the fire.
b. Vertical extension via the interior stairs.
c. Vertical extension via the pipe chases and channel rails.
d. Horizontal extension across the basement ceiling and vertical extension via the exterior wall studs.
3. Regarding the location and extent of the fire, what is the most significant concern that will be encountered by fire forces?
a. Difficult to advance downstairs to attack fire.
b. There should be no problems at all in this type of construction and occupancy.
c. Difficult to ventilate
d. Difficult to force entry.
4. Where would you order the first engine company to position?
a. Past fire building
b. Front of fire building
c. Side of fire building
d. Position as per arrival conditions
5. Where would you order the first handline be stretched?
a. Exterior cellar window
b. Through front entrance to main hall of the first floor
c. Into cellar via exterior entrance
d. To the rear of the first floor
6. How would this first line be utilized?
a. Stretch line to exterior basement window and attack fire in basement through window.
b. Stretch to main hall of first floor to protect interior stairs and evacuation of occupants.
c. Advance via exterior basement door to confine and extinguish the fire at its level of origin.
d. Stretch into cellar via interior stairs to locate, confine, and extinguish fire.
7. Where would you order the second handline?
a. To the cellar via the exterior basement entrance
b. Stretch to the top floor
c. To the exterior basement window
d. Stretch to the main hall first floor to back up the first line as it proceeds down the basement.
8. How would this second line be utilized?
a. Protect interior stairs
b. Primary attack line
c. Protection of firefighters involved in primary search
d. Back up Engine 1 attack
9. What are your orders for Truck 1? The crew has been split
a. Primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate cellar at doors and windows. Open bulkhead door and other natural openings at roof level. Search top floor and floors below.
b. Conduct primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate first floor and cellar windows. Assist victims down fire escape in the rear
c. Conduct primary search and rescue on all floors. Vertically ventilate structure by cutting the roof. Check for fire extension.
d. Horizontally ventilate windows and doors in the cellar from the exterior. Vertically ventilate building by opening bulkhead door and all natural openings at roof level.
10. What would you stretch the third hose line?
a. Stretch and advance in unison with line from interior stairs
b. Stretch to exterior cellar entrance. Back up attack line or advance in unison as required
c. Stretch to the top floor to check for extension
d. Set up line at cellar windows in case initial lines cannot advance
11. What would be your greatest concern regarding the personnel operating the initial attack line in the cellar?
a. Collapse of cellar ceiling
b. Disorientation
c. Fatigue
d. Kinks of the hose, reducing water available
12. What measures could you take to address these concerns?
a. Instruct hose team to use as life line
b. Assign a Safety Officer
c. Relieve and rotate the attack team
d. Assign a chase man to ensure the line is stretched efficiently
Good Luck
aa
The interior cellar stairway is directly beneath the main stairs and is protected by a fire door on the first floor. The fire door has self-closing hinges. There is also an exterior basement entrance located at the front of the building. To access the basement from the front, you must descend three steps to the exterior wood door.
On arrival, heat conditions are severe, but the first floor is tenable. There are no alarms sounding. There are occupants attempting to escape the fire building via the rear fire escape. There are also many people exiting the building via the main stairwell.
Appropriate Engine Companies have secured their own water supply, and the first-due Truck has been placed directly in front of the fire building.
You arrive along with two engines and a truck company. Three firefighters and an Officer man each apparatus. All subsequent alarms will bring an additional two engines and a truck.
You are the Incident Commander.
1. Would additional alarms be necessary?
a. Yes, a second alarm is required due to the life hazard
b. No, the first alarm assignment is adequate to handle this assignment.
c. Scenario information is inadequate to make the decision. More information would be needed from interior companies.
d. Yes, special call one engine company and one Ladder company to the scene.
2. Regarding ordinary construction, what would be your major concern?
a. Collapse of the parapet wall in the initial stages of the fire.
b. Vertical extension via the interior stairs.
c. Vertical extension via the pipe chases and channel rails.
d. Horizontal extension across the basement ceiling and vertical extension via the exterior wall studs.
3. Regarding the location and extent of the fire, what is the most significant concern that will be encountered by fire forces?
a. Difficult to advance downstairs to attack fire.
b. There should be no problems at all in this type of construction and occupancy.
c. Difficult to ventilate
d. Difficult to force entry.
4. Where would you order the first engine company to position?
a. Past fire building
b. Front of fire building
c. Side of fire building
d. Position as per arrival conditions
5. Where would you order the first handline be stretched?
a. Exterior cellar window
b. Through front entrance to main hall of the first floor
c. Into cellar via exterior entrance
d. To the rear of the first floor
6. How would this first line be utilized?
a. Stretch line to exterior basement window and attack fire in basement through window.
b. Stretch to main hall of first floor to protect interior stairs and evacuation of occupants.
c. Advance via exterior basement door to confine and extinguish the fire at its level of origin.
d. Stretch into cellar via interior stairs to locate, confine, and extinguish fire.
7. Where would you order the second handline?
a. To the cellar via the exterior basement entrance
b. Stretch to the top floor
c. To the exterior basement window
d. Stretch to the main hall first floor to back up the first line as it proceeds down the basement.
8. How would this second line be utilized?
a. Protect interior stairs
b. Primary attack line
c. Protection of firefighters involved in primary search
d. Back up Engine 1 attack
9. What are your orders for Truck 1? The crew has been split
a. Primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate cellar at doors and windows. Open bulkhead door and other natural openings at roof level. Search top floor and floors below.
b. Conduct primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate first floor and cellar windows. Assist victims down fire escape in the rear
c. Conduct primary search and rescue on all floors. Vertically ventilate structure by cutting the roof. Check for fire extension.
d. Horizontally ventilate windows and doors in the cellar from the exterior. Vertically ventilate building by opening bulkhead door and all natural openings at roof level.
10. What would you stretch the third hose line?
a. Stretch and advance in unison with line from interior stairs
b. Stretch to exterior cellar entrance. Back up attack line or advance in unison as required
c. Stretch to the top floor to check for extension
d. Set up line at cellar windows in case initial lines cannot advance
11. What would be your greatest concern regarding the personnel operating the initial attack line in the cellar?
a. Collapse of cellar ceiling
b. Disorientation
c. Fatigue
d. Kinks of the hose, reducing water available
12. What measures could you take to address these concerns?
a. Instruct hose team to use as life line
b. Assign a Safety Officer
c. Relieve and rotate the attack team
d. Assign a chase man to ensure the line is stretched efficiently
Good Luck
aa
Views: 390
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on
-
. Would additional alarms be necessary?
a. Yes, a second alarm is required due to the life hazard
2. Regarding ordinary construction, what would be your major concern?
c. Vertical extension via the pipe chases and channel rails.
3. Regarding the location and extent of the fire, what is the most significant concern that will be encountered by fire forces?
c. Difficult to ventilate
4. Where would you order the first engine company to position?
a. Past fire building
5. Where would you order the first handline be stretched?
b. Through front entrance to main hall of the first floor
6. How would this first line be utilized?
b. Stretch to main hall of first floor to protect interior stairs and evacuation of occupants.
7. Where would you order the second handline?
a. To the cellar via the exterior basement entrance
8. How would this second line be utilized?
b. Primary attack line
9. What are your orders for Truck 1? The crew has been split
a. Primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate cellar at doors and windows. Open bulkhead door and other natural openings at roof level. Search top floor and floors below.
10. What would you stretch the third hose line?
b. Stretch to exterior cellar entrance. Back up attack line or advance in unison as required
11. What would be your greatest concern regarding the personnel operating the initial attack line in the cellar?
c. Fatigue
12. What measures could you take to address these concerns?
c. Relieve and rotate the attack team -
-
Permalink Reply by Kurt Callisen on
-
After reading the replies from Dave and Chris, i agree with them on all the points but one. I would send the 1st and 2nd line down the interior stairs, and try to "push" the fire out the exterior door and basement windows. the 3rd line I would have pulled to the front of the building charged and ready to go the basement windows, incase they can't make the stairs or the 1st or 2nd floor to take care of extension.
Kurt -
-
-
Kurt,
Here's how i looked at it. By advancing the line down the interior cellar stairs you expose the main set of stairs, that occupants are using to egress, to smoke, heat and possible fire extension. By using the exterior stairs you maintain integrity of the fire door beneath the main stairs and allow the occupants to escape under more tenable conditions. Chris -
-
Permalink Reply by Tim Colacci on
-
Good scenario Chief.
1. Would additional alarms be necessary?
a. Yes, a second alarm is required due to the life hazard
2. Regarding ordinary construction, what would be your major concern?
c. Vertical extension via the pipe chases and channel rails.
( I would have chose vertical extension through interior stairs if the fire door was not in place.)
3. Regarding the location and extent of the fire, what is the most significant concern that will be encountered by fire forces?
a. Difficult to advance downstairs to attack fire.
4. Where would you order the first engine company to position?
a. Past fire building
5. Where would you order the first handline be stretched?
b. Through front entrance to main hall of the first floor
6. How would this first line be utilized?
b. Stretch to main hall of first floor to protect interior stairs and evacuation of occupants.
7. Where would you order the second handline?
d. Stretch to the main hall first floor to back up the first line as it proceeds down the basement.
(The reason i chose this was You always want to keep a line between the fire and the life hazard. And you never want opposing handlines.)
8. How would this second line be utilized?
a. Protect interior stairs
9. What are your orders for Truck 1? The crew has been split
b. Conduct primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate first floor and cellar windows. Assist victims down fire escape in the rear
10. What would you stretch the third hose line?
a. Stretch and advance in unison with line from interior stairs
11. What would be your greatest concern regarding the personnel operating the initial attack line in the cellar?
c. Fatigue
(Also a concern of mine would be a collapse of the celler stairs during advancement.)
12. What measures could you take to address these concerns?
c. Relieve and rotate the attack team
(And the only reason i did not chose to assign a Safety Officer is b/c i believe this is something that should be established at every fire, regardless of size and nature.) -
-
Permalink Reply by Moises Valdes on
-
1. Would additional alarms be necessary?
a. Yes, a second alarm is required due to the life hazard
2. Regarding ordinary construction, what would be your major concern?
c. Vertical extension via the pipe chases and channel rails.
3. Regarding the location and extent of the fire, what is the most significant concern that will be encountered by fire forces?
c. Difficult to ventilate (This is a significant concern at ALL cellar fires.)
4. Where would you order the first engine company to position?
a. Past fire building (This really needs to be stressed to all Eng Co drivers. You can stretch hose but you cannot stretch ladders. Leave the front of the building clear for the Truck Co.)
5. Where would you order the first handline be stretched?
b. Through front entrance to main hall of the first floor (Yes the fire is in the cellar, but who is coming down the interior stairs?)
6. How would this first line be utilized?
b. Stretch to main hall of first floor to protect interior stairs and evacuation of occupants. (Maintain control of the fire door and keep the heat, smoke and fire from entering the stairway.)
7. Where would you order the second handline?
a. To the cellar via the exterior basement entrance (If you attack the fire thru the interior door you are allowing the heat, smoke and fire to enter the stairway, endangering the fleeing occupants. Using the exterior prevents this while also placing the attack crew in a better position to attack the fire instead of having to descend the stairs, which will act as a chimney for the fire.)
8. How would this second line be utilized?
b. Primary attack line
9. What are your orders for Truck 1? The crew has been split
a. Primary search and rescue in cellar and first floor. Horizontally ventilate cellar at doors and windows. Open bulkhead door and other natural openings at roof level. Search top floor and floors below. (The occupants on the fire escape are already outside the building. My priority is those in the immediate fire area, the floor above and the occupants escaping via the interior stairs.)
10. Where would you stretch the third hose line?
b. Stretch to exterior cellar entrance. Back up attack line or advance in unison as required (You now have full coverage: an attack line, a backup line and a line on the floor above)
11. What would be your greatest concern regarding the personnel operating the initial attack line in the cellar?
a. Collapse of cellar ceiling (You have to assume an unfinished basement with exposed structural members that are being attacked and weakened by the fire. This will lead to a potential basement ceiling/first floor collpase)
12. What measures could you take to address these concerns?
b. Assign a Safety Officer (He can monitor the first floor and check for any signs that the structural supports nearest the fire area are weakening. If this occurs an evacuation of all members would then be initiated)
Thanks for the refresher chief. Now take it easy on me when grading it...lol -
-
Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on
-
OK, i'm back from indy
here are the answers to this scenario
will post a new one on monday, hopefully
Youse guys did well on this one for the most part
i have to start making them tougher!!!
1. A -- life hazard always the #1 reason for additionl alarms
2. B -- especialy in a cellar fire, the stairs are the critical focus point for stopping fire extension. it is the biggest vertical artery and is directly affected by your ability to keep the fire in the cellar more than any other artery
3. C -- all your major problems will be caused by the inability to provide effective initial ventilation -- Answer choice A is no good as our attack stratgey does not require use of the cellar stairs
4. A leave room for the ladder co.
5. B first line is a confinement line to protect the biggest vertical artery (and most vulnerable) -- the stairs
6. B. see explanation in answer 5
7. A -- safest most effective path of least resistance into the fire area; to take the line down the cellar stairs from the 1st floor not only beats up the attack team, but exposes the stairwell to the products of combustion
8 B primary attack line, line on 1st floor is confinment and vertical extension preventioon line
9 A searching of the fire area / venting of the fire area / opening the roof via naturals -- best action here -- all are required
10. B back up the attack line
11. C -- it is 82 degrees -- fatigue will come fast to those on the inital attack line
12 -- C -- relieve and rotation - the solution to the concern posed in question 11
Stay safe
aa -
-
-
My counter to questions 11 & 12:
In my humble opinion, though the heat is a concern, it would not be the "greatest" concern. We don't know how long the fire has been burning and therefore how long the support structure of the ceiling/floor has been exposed and weakened. To me, that would be the greatest comcern. And that's not to say I wouldn't relieve/rotate the attack team just that I would want to monitor conditions... -
-
-
my feeling is that due to the fact that it is ordinary construction and the joists should be relatively substantial as compared to lightweight construction, the fatigue factor would set in way before the collpase issue has surfaced. Different story if it was lightweight
-
-
-
Good point...
-
Policy Page
PLEASE NOTE
The login above DOES NOT provide access to Fire Engineering magazine archives. Please go here for our archives.
CONTRIBUTORS NOTE
Our contributors' posts are not vetted by the Fire Engineering technical board, and reflect the views and opinions of the individual authors. Anyone is welcome to participate.
For vetted content, please go to www.fireengineering.com/issues.
We are excited to have you participate in our discussions and interactive forums. Before you begin posting, please take a moment to read our community policy page.
Be Alert for Spam
We actively monitor the community for spam, however some does slip through. Please use common sense and caution when clicking links. If you suspect you've been hit by spam, e-mail peter.prochilo@clarionevents.com.
FE Podcasts
Check out the most recent episode and schedule of UPCOMING PODCASTS
Podcast Archive
Groups
-
Unique HazMat Incidents
45 members
-
Haz-Mat
116 members
-
National Fallen Firefigh…
62 members
-
Operational Guides
73 members
-
"Outside The Box" Engine…
166 members
-
Engine Company Ops
65 members
-
Fire Service Leadership
277 members
-
COMPANY DRILLS
510 members
-
Swiftwater Rescue
10 members
-
Step Up and LEAD
106 members
© 2024 Created by fireeng.
Powered by
