Adapting

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on July 22, 2010 at 10:57am

First, let thank you all for the comments. There are no right or wrong answers, just great thoughts and ideas for us to all think about and learn from. Now, the rest of the story.


The rest of the story.
There is nothing earth shattering here, but I learned two valuable lessons on this fire.

When we pulled up on this fire, the first arriving engines were all two man cabs. We didn’t have jump seats in any of our trucks at the time. I did some digging and found out that this fire was in 1997.

The drive was narrow and we got hung up in the ditch, blocking the drive right off the bat. Luckily we had multiple trucks rolling at the dispatch and we had adequate personnel.

The first crew stretched a 1 3/4 inch line in through the side B door in the kitchen and advanced up the stairs. The first floor had no smoke or fire at this time. It became apparent fairly quickly that the initial attack was not making any progress.

We advanced a second line, a 2 1/2 inch stretch up the same stairs and made a very fast knock down. The importance of this is that we did this with less than 1000 gallons of water. Why do I stress this?

I have had debates about using large lines when water supplies are limited or late in developing. When asked about using a larger line the response is that they would not use one because they will run out of water too fast. My rebuttal is always that they may just get enough gpm on the fire to put it out before you run out of water. That is exactly what we did. Oh, and two guys handled the hose!

So, lesson 1 is big fire equals big water. If the fire is advanced enough that you will run out of water, it wont make any difference what size your line is. But, the larger line will put out more fire in that short amount of time.

While we were up stairs fighting fire, there was a crew in the living room doing some work. They had started salvage operations in the unaffected part of the house. Understand that we didn’t need extensive ventilation and we had adequate manpower. But, they stacked and covered everything in the living room and did the same in other rooms that were appropriate.

This ended up paying off big with the homeowner. As happy as they were about us putting out their fire, they were just as happy, or even more so, that we protected what had not been damaged by fire but would have been by the water. When they were interviewed by the paper they went on and on about our efforts to protect all of their property.

So, lesson number 2 is to take the time to perform salvage operations if manpower and conditions permit. It is something that is too often overlooked.

By the way, there was no basement here, but all of you are correct in assuming this until you know for sure. All of the responses were great and I really appreciate the time that you took to share.

Stay safe and be careful.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on July 23, 2010 at 11:51am

-The rule of thumb that an old timer shared with me about residential fires when I was just beginning is, "If a residential fire has control of more than two rooms, the initial stretch must be a 2 1/2". This advise has always served well and is still applicable today.
-Tom Brennen often said that in a residential fire scenario the 2 1/2 is the most potent and underused weapon we have in our arsenal.
-Though this incident occurred in an area devoid of hydrants the 2 1/2 stretch is still the best option. It does however illustrate rather poignantly, the absolute need for nozzle discipline and the proper and judicious application of available water. The line should be advanced in, the fire located while the Ladder Company opens up to the seat.
-The photo in this scenario depicts a structure that must be properly opened up quickly and manpower must be dedicated to Truck work, which includes the most vital function in a residential fire- performing an early and aggressive primary search. I am recalling the proverb from Chief Mittendorff, "Engines put out fires but Ladders dictate how the fire will be attacked.
-Judging just from the photo it seems that the fastest option is to advance the 2 1/2 inside and up the interior stairs while the Truck opens up the ceiling. As the IC I would not commit firefighters to the roof as it is faster, safer and more efficient in this scenario to pull ceilings and open the walls.
-A 2 1/2 will knock this fire down very quickly. Unfortunately, because of the over reliance on the 1 3/4, many firefighters today have little experience with a 2 1/2. Many times this experience tends to be negative and gained on the drill field in the academy and therein lies the aversion to the use of the 2 1/2.
-The 2 1/2 hand line, when properly operated and pumped, is a seriously powerful resource that can be aggressively employed by an Engine Co. with immediate definitive results.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Frozenhosehead on July 23, 2010 at 12:30pm

Awesome points Bric!

I think we have become somewhat lazy these days...I mean that we generally take the smaller lighter line and not the bulky heavier one for attack. The reliance on 1 3/4 is only making us work harder instead of smarter by using a duece and a half when it is needed. Once the fire is knocked down then use the smaller line for extension and mop up.

I also believe that after conducting a search and firefighter safety (venting and RIT), that proprerty conservation is a major goal. I saw a video the other day from the East coast of a fire in an apartment complex where the fire started on the end unit and spread over the roof to the fire wall. It looks like not many big lines were used early to knock it down or used on the 2nd floor apartments to attack the fire from below. They set up a tower and just trounced all the units with water which also affected the first floor and basement units by adding all that weight to the floors.

They could have saved a lot of property damage from my view of the video but it appears they were worried about the roof collapsing in on them. Town & Country Blvd Fire

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on July 23, 2010 at 4:48pm

-Brad, I could not agree with your comments more.
-As to the video, this was an example of very poor, ill-prpepared, reactionary firefighting. And, someone should have shut down the exterior line as the nozzle man was consistently shooting over the top of the house, as is common with this tactic of operating a handline from the ground. Not until the fire burns down to his location is this line effective.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion