Factors to Consider

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on June 1, 2010 at 5:32pm

-Jason, I know you want someone to point out the children's toys in the front and the car in the yard as an indicator that people are home and may need rescue but I submit to you that we should always assume that the structure is occupied until verified by firefighters.
-Something to remember is that over a third of our society works nights and sleeps during the day. One of every five families in this country have an extended family member living with them; grandma and/or grandpa live with the kids and grand kids. Then there is the child home from school or those that are just drunk, high or to stupid to get out. Firefighters must assume that someone is always home.
-Next, there is the overhead power lines in the photo that could become a potential problem... but not yet.
-The windows in the front are ideal for VES.
-Looks like the company is intent on entering by the front door of the occupancy. I'm familiar with this type of structure. The two separate apartment buildings have a front door that face the common garden area. If the street side is Alpha then the front door for the fire building is on the Bravo side.
-These apartments tend to be in the more poor areas of the city, are usually poorly maintained structures, are on the order of 500 - 800 square feet and are very easy to search very quickly and aggressively.
-Truck company members should consider taking down/going through/around the fence and extending an aggressive search via VES.
-Roof venting in this scenario is unnecessary as the Engine should have the fire knocked down well before the Truck makes it to the roof. Despite the photo looking impressive, the Engine usually will have this fire knocked down very quickly.
-The real danger in these types of occupancies is trapped victims and those in need of assistance getting out, regardless of the time of day or presence of cars. These apartment complexes, at least in my area, tend to be heavily occupied. Rescue is always the priority for the Truck.

Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on June 1, 2010 at 8:13pm

Mike,
You make great points and I agree with your assessment in regards to occupancy. You are correct in your assumption about the toys and the car. But, the other thing I wanted to accomplish, and you pointed these things out, is that there is a lot to look at and consider when you are the officer.
You mention a wide variety of variables and those thoughts happen in seconds. The other point is that the house may have been vacant until just moments before you arrive; kids playing in a vacant house, potential buyers, renters, looters, you never know.
As always, you make excellent points and thanks for commenting.
Jason

Michael Bricault said:

-Jason, I know you want someone to point out the children's toys in the front and the car in the yard as an indicator that people are home and may need rescue but I submit to you that we should always assume that the structure is occupied until verified by firefighters.
-Something to remember is that over a third of our society works nights and sleeps during the day. One of every five families in this country have an extended family member living with them; grandma and/or grandpa live with the kids and grand kids. Then there is the child home from school or those that are just drunk, high or to stupid to get out. Firefighters must assume that someone is always home.
-Next, there is the overhead power lines in the photo that could become a potential problem... but not yet.
-The windows in the front are ideal for VES.
-Looks like the company is intent on entering by the front door of the occupancy. I'm familiar with this type of structure. The two separate apartment buildings have a front door that face the common garden area. If the street side is Alpha then the front door for the fire building is on the Bravo side.
-These apartments tend to be in the more poor areas of the city, are usually poorly maintained structures, are on the order of 500 - 800 square feet and are very easy to search very quickly and aggressively.
-Truck company members should consider taking down/going through/around the fence and extending an aggressive search via VES.
-Roof venting in this scenario is unnecessary as the Engine should have the fire knocked down well before the Truck makes it to the roof. Despite the photo looking impressive, the Engine usually will have this fire knocked down very quickly.
-The real danger in these types of occupancies is trapped victims and those in need of assistance getting out, regardless of the time of day or presence of cars. These apartment complexes, at least in my area, tend to be heavily occupied. Rescue is always the priority for the Truck.

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on June 1, 2010 at 8:20pm

-My thoughts exactly. I'm fond of reminding folks that vacant buildings do not set themselves on fire. And short of a lightning strike someone got inside and started the fire and they still may be inside.

Permalink Reply by Mike France on June 1, 2010 at 8:57pm

Well , one concern is the Power and Phone Lines, no one outside tells me we may victims, heavy smoke and fire in the rear of structure. Life Safety is the main factor.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on June 1, 2010 at 9:07pm

I agree with Brick overall. My thoughts as a boss are get my line stretched, properly and water one the fire, while my second crew does a quick search. Toys, cars, etc, are all important, but not doing a quick search and water on the fire quickly will only allow a job that might take 100gallons to turn into a fatality. We can be more aggressive at a job like this, not reckless, agressive. This goes back to training for the real thing.

Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on June 1, 2010 at 9:10pm

You guys never fail to make these great learning sessions. This is the stuff I love to pass on, great discussions.
Thanks,
Jason

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on June 2, 2010 at 10:20am

-Never rely on anyone telling you there are or aren't victims trapped inside. Bystanders are most often incorrect with their information. Who are these people and how do they know?
-The safest assumption is that the structure is occupied until verified by firefighters. Everything gets searched, every time.
-Even if the fire prevents entry or creates an atmosphere that is incompatible with sustaining life, once the fire is under control the search begins.
-I'm not advocating foolish risk taking here but far to many firefighters and officers cannot see past the pre-connects. If they're not throwing water they're lost.
-Time wasted making the stretch, locating the fire and knocking the fire down is all time that the victim continues to be exposed to heat and smoke. The game clock never stops!! And what's worse, these victims have no PPE or SCBA. Suppression creates thermal inversion and a searing cloud of steam.
-Our first and foremost concern should be establishing a Rescue Profile and then creating a strategic plan to support that Rescue Profile. I'm not saying to delay fire attack every time but, the fire service as a whole doesn't think about the victim often or soon enough. Search aggressively and safely based on conditions and indicators.
-The reality is that a small room and contents fire inside of a 1400 sf occupancy will make that occupancy uninhabitable and usually destroy most of the contents of the entire structure; clothes unusable, computers destroyed, food must be thrown out... Then there is all of the suppression and overhauling damage on top of that. And speaking very honestly, far too many firefighters do not understand what nozzle discipline is; water is over used and thrown everywhere, because that's what heros do right? These guys forget that they are ruining peoples homes and possessions, the very thing they like to say they are trying to save, with their sloppy application of water.
-I teach young firefighter to think like this is their stuff or their home. Now how do you want these guys to behave?


Chief Mike France said:

Well , one concern is the Power and Phone Lines, no one outside tells me we may victims, heavy smoke and fire in the rear of structure. Life Safety is the main factor.