LDH Manifolds

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Frozenhosehead on March 29, 2009 at 6:12pm

Are you going to discuss only the type that connect to the steamer port or are you going to cover other 5"manifolds? If you cover any type of 5" manifold you can make it a great class because there are a variety. Like the Humat...usually see in the Mid Atlantic states, connects to hydrant and can be used to boost pressure by another engine. That is one example of a hydrant manifold, then you have your 5" supply and discharge manifolds as well. I would love a copy of your pp when you get it finished or if you need any help just ask.

Good luck

KTF

Brad

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Permalink Reply by kent henson on March 29, 2009 at 6:48pm

We use the manifold in the street as a "portable hydrant" in several ways. As a siamese to provide water from a distance, as a wye near the truck and as a monitor in front especially up some pigpath driveways our truck wont fit into.

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Permalink Reply by kent henson on June 28, 2009 at 11:49am

Brad, I am finished with the class on LDH manifolds and will send you a copy like you requested. I have printed out the written portion and made a disc of the powerpoint. How can I mail it to you? Email me to let me know and after you review it, give me some feedback. Thanks,Kent ffemt20yrs@yahoo.com

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Permalink Reply by Larry Lasich on June 28, 2009 at 1:18pm

Humats are also used to boost the pressure when you are supporting a long LDH stretch. The Humat is placed somewhere in the LDH and dropped during the supply stretch. You can start flowing the LDH and an Engine can connect later and boost the working pressure for the attack Engines.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Risen on July 5, 2009 at 10:20pm

We have manifolds available for use, but do not routinely utilize them. They can be utilized in a reverse lay evolution as follows:

The engine stops at the building and the Officer orders "manifold". The crew then sets off 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" bundles (100' to 150' in length), the manifold and then heels the 4". The engine heads to the hyrdant while the crew connects the manifold to the 4" and extends an attack bundle to the fire off the manifold. Once at the hyrdant, the engineer gives us tank water, notifying us by radio when the hydrant supply is established. The key is speed and having the bundles pre set and tied for dropping in the street. I have timed it with my crew and it is just as quick as a forward lay. Our manifolds are a 4" inlet with three 2 1/2" gated outlets.

They are great for dropping next to a truck company to supply the ladder pipe and a handline or two. They also can be overhauled down long driveways or other spots you cannot get (or would not want to put) an engine.

We are next to Seattle FD and they use it fairly routinely. We are more inclined to a forward lay. Perhaps a Seattle FD member can chime in.

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Permalink Reply by kent henson on July 6, 2009 at 4:24am

Nice use of the manifold! I wrote this class because there isnt any standard training on the manifold that i could find and we use it at most fires. I mentioned using it for a reverse lay but only when necessary such as needing to retreat from a dangerous situation because we dont normally do reverse lays. We have a mostly rural area and use it for the next in truck to attach to like you mentioned with the driveways. Here,its used as a siamese. If there is a hydrant available, its put at the truck to use as a clamp, as a wye, and if needed, to supply more than one truck. We also can load it on a utility vehicle and put it in front of the truck when we cant or wont acess the scene. Here,its used as a siamese, a wye, or a water thief. I want the personnel to know thats its a valuable tool to use to provide and manage water and mainly which way to turn it to get the most water out. We are considering getting a second one to use just in case a situation arises where another one could be beneficial.

Mark Risen said:

We have manifolds available for use, but do not routinely utilize them. They can be utilized in a reverse lay evolution as follows:

The engine stops at the building and the Officer orders "manifold". The crew then sets off 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" bundles (100' to 150' in length), the manifold and then heels the 4". The engine heads to the hyrdant while the crew connects the manifold to the 4" and extends an attack bundle to the fire off the manifold. Once at the hyrdant, the engineer gives us tank water, notifying us by radio when the hydrant supply is established. The key is speed and having the bundles pre set and tied for dropping in the street. I have timed it with my crew and it is just as quick as a forward lay. Our manifolds are a 4" inlet with three 2 1/2" gated outlets.

They are great for dropping next to a truck company to supply the ladder pipe and a handline or two. They also can be overhauled down long driveways or other spots you cannot get (or would not want to put) an engine.

We are next to Seattle FD and they use it fairly routinely. We are more inclined to a forward lay. Perhaps a Seattle FD member can chime in.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Laird on July 6, 2009 at 9:38am

They also work great for doing Tanker ops because you can set up multiple lines and fill tankers with different configurations and when you work in none hydrant areas filling Tankers quickly is very important every gallon makes a difference .

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Permalink Reply by Frozenhosehead on July 6, 2009 at 12:28pm

Very true Larry! It certainly can be used anywhere in the lay to supplement the pressure. Not many places I have seen the humat in use except back home on the East Coast and primarily in PA and MD and Northern VA. There the humats are generally connected to the hydrant and then another incoming engine connects in and boosts the hydrant pressure. Need to get some pictures up of the different uses of LDH manifolds...lets think outside the box on this but be safe about it.

Larry Lasich said:

Humats are also used to boost the pressure when you are supporting a long LDH stretch. The Humat is placed somewhere in the LDH and dropped during the supply stretch. You can start flowing the LDH and an Engine can connect later and boost the working pressure for the attack Engines.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Risen on July 6, 2009 at 6:47pm

I think we are confusing two different things here.

A manifold (in this part of the world anyway) is a large gated wye for reducing an LDH line into 2 or more smaller lines.

A device for boosting pressure on a forward lay would be a four way valve, of which Humat is a brand name.

Maybe different parts of the country have differing terminology?

Mark

Brad Hoff said:

Very true Larry! It certainly can be used anywhere in the lay to supplement the pressure. Not many places I have seen the humat in use except back home on the East Coast and primarily in PA and MD and Northern VA. There the humats are generally connected to the hydrant and then another incoming engine connects in and boosts the hydrant pressure. Need to get some pictures up of the different uses of LDH manifolds...lets think outside the box on this but be safe about it.

Larry Lasich said:

Humats are also used to boost the pressure when you are supporting a long LDH stretch. The Humat is placed somewhere in the LDH and dropped during the supply stretch. You can start flowing the LDH and an Engine can connect later and boost the working pressure for the attack Engines.

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Permalink Reply by kent henson on July 6, 2009 at 9:29pm

Our manifold is also the wye mentioned to split off into smaller hoses. Ours is a straight through 5" with two 2 1/2" gated ports but if you turn it around, it becomes a siamese to supply in through the 5" or the 2 1/2" to feed the 5" coming out. Its a waterthief that we use as a wye or a siamese depending where we put it and how we need to manage our water. It is also put at the truck when we have a hydrant to be used to "clamp" off the LDH if needed. The Humat is used around here on the hydrant to boost pressure but the manifold lays on the ground for its purposes. Confusing, right? Thats why I decided to write a class with pictures showing every configuration we could think of to use it.

Mark Risen said:

I think we are confusing two different things here.

A manifold (in this part of the world anyway) is a large gated wye for reducing an LDH line into 2 or more smaller lines.

A device for boosting pressure on a forward lay would be a four way valve, of which Humat is a brand name.

Maybe different parts of the country have differing terminology?

Mark

Brad Hoff said:

Very true Larry! It certainly can be used anywhere in the lay to supplement the pressure. Not many places I have seen the humat in use except back home on the East Coast and primarily in PA and MD and Northern VA. There the humats are generally connected to the hydrant and then another incoming engine connects in and boosts the hydrant pressure. Need to get some pictures up of the different uses of LDH manifolds...lets think outside the box on this but be safe about it.

Larry Lasich said:

Humats are also used to boost the pressure when you are supporting a long LDH stretch. The Humat is placed somewhere in the LDH and dropped during the supply stretch. You can start flowing the LDH and an Engine can connect later and boost the working pressure for the attack Engines.

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Permalink Reply by Frozenhosehead on July 7, 2009 at 11:54am

Not sure who is confused, at least not me. The humat is just another type of manifold with a different purpose. I have a lot of time with LDH manifolds and the one Mark is referring to is just simply a giant gated wye and could have two 2.5" ports or four and may even have the 5" port going all the way through with guages to look at line pressure to ensure the manifold is not under to much pressure to cause catastrophic failure like the one in NJ. They are great for tanker shuttle operations at the fill site, or can be used in a revese lay or even reversed to flow four 3" lines into it to fill the 5" supply line.


I'm sure you all know that but someone else who reads this may not.

KTF

kent henson said:

Our manifold is also the wye mentioned to split off into smaller hoses. Ours is a straight through 5" with two 2 1/2" gated ports but if you turn it around, it becomes a siamese to supply in through the 5" or the 2 1/2" to feed the 5" coming out. Its a waterthief that we use as a wye or a siamese depending where we put it and how we need to manage our water. It is also put at the truck when we have a hydrant to be used to "clamp" off the LDH if needed. The Humat is used around here on the hydrant to boost pressure but the manifold lays on the ground for its purposes. Confusing, right? Thats why I decided to write a class with pictures showing every configuration we could think of to use it.

Mark Risen said:

I think we are confusing two different things here.

A manifold (in this part of the world anyway) is a large gated wye for reducing an LDH line into 2 or more smaller lines.

A device for boosting pressure on a forward lay would be a four way valve, of which Humat is a brand name.

Maybe different parts of the country have differing terminology?

Mark

Brad Hoff said:

Very true Larry! It certainly can be used anywhere in the lay to supplement the pressure. Not many places I have seen the humat in use except back home on the East Coast and primarily in PA and MD and Northern VA. There the humats are generally connected to the hydrant and then another incoming engine connects in and boosts the hydrant pressure. Need to get some pictures up of the different uses of LDH manifolds...lets think outside the box on this but be safe about it.

Larry Lasich said:

Humats are also used to boost the pressure when you are supporting a long LDH stretch. The Humat is placed somewhere in the LDH and dropped during the supply stretch. You can start flowing the LDH and an Engine can connect later and boost the working pressure for the attack Engines.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Risen on July 7, 2009 at 2:57pm

Thanks for the clarification Brad. I think this is a case of regional terminology. Locally, correct or not, a 4 way valve and mainifold are two different appliances with two distinct uses. Hence my "confusion" post. I was confused.

I have zero experience with tender operations and most of our supply lays are pretty short (300'-400'). I have never seen a Humat valve used in the middle of a lay, only at the hydrant - but I am sure it works. Neither have I had occasion to pump "into" our version of a manifold. While it would certainly work, we use it primarily for supplying attack lines off a reverse lay (LDH inlet to 2 1/2" outlets).

That is the nice thing about the forums: Learn something new everyday and it is all interesting.

Thanks,

Mark

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