Regionalization -- does it work???

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on March 16, 2008 at 4:36pm

there are many bumps in the road
it toook 5 years to settle a unification contract and it was done by an arbitrator (traitor for short!!)
no one was real happy with it
there was alos a lot of resitance -- we correlated it to the stages of impending death -- denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance
i worked previously in a town where our min staffing was 10 which included the ICand pump operator -- hardly a capability for a proper initial attack
now we respond with minimum 25. thats a 150% increase
while we always say that they took 5 understaffed dept and created 1 bigger understaffed dept, we are still better off on the freground, in fact our worst day in NHRFR is still better than our best day prior to regionalization fireground-wise
there is one unintended advantage however (so far) -- no mayor wants to close a firehouse in his town

Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on March 17, 2008 at 7:28pm

I could only hope that they would look at it here. Tons of resistance all-around. Lots of people will tell you its a good idea, then do nothing and hope it all goes away. I have always been taught that as you get older you are resistant to change, but I seem to be more willing than ever to challenge & change "the way we've always done it". Wow, what a huge hill to climb, at least in my culturally conservative county.

Permalink Reply by Drew Smith on March 17, 2008 at 11:41pm

I'm located about 8 miles north of Chicago O'Hare Airport and we have a form of functional regionalization. We use a joint all-fire/no cops dispatch for 13 departments that run fire/ALS EMS. We also have a large-scale regional mutual aid system (MABAS) which has 18 departments in my division and another 40+ in the two adjoining divisions. While we are all our own departments, and some of us could benefit by consolidation, the above systems do us a lot of good.

All our paramedic/FFs use the same medical control and our MCI plan is regional, not local.
When I get a reported structure fire I'm never short of the assignment (3 engine, 1 ladder, 1 ALS and a chief giving me 14-16 members) as the dispatcher automatically fills in any of the normal companies if they are on another run. If the 1st company declares a working fire a 4th engine, 2nd truck, 2nd ALS and two more chiefs are dispatched and on scene in 10 minutes giving me another 10 members. If I go for a MABAS alarm I’ll get another 3 engines, 1 ladder, 1 squad, 1 ALS and 3 chiefs and I do not even have to turn the knob on my radio. My six square mile/19000 population district has a second-due area of 20 square miles and 100,000 population. On a mutual aid run for a working fire we cover about 100 square miles and over 500000 population.
Our mutual aid system hold two drills a year through our regional academy. It costs me less than $100 per company per drill and everyone goes on duty (saving OT) because the regional dispatch and mutual aid covers my town for the three hours were out of district. Our mutual aid has some basic SOPs for RIT, fireground communication, and special ops/
Through our regional mutual aid we are members of a technical rescue team, haz mat team and dive/water rescue team all of which we pay a nominal dues of about $3500 dollars per year. The TRT has nearly 100 techs trained to NFPA 1670 in rope, confined space, trench and building collapse. The Haz Mat team has 60 members tech trained and every one of our about 900 regional FFs has HM Ops with decon group training. I’m not sure how many divers there are, but with any one of these special teams I’ll have 20-30 members on scene within 20 minutes of the request.
Regionally, we own special squads for TRT and haz mat that supplement the eight heavy rescues in our region, we own a 40-ft comm van and a decon shower truck which can process 200 victims in an hour.

The only down side to all of this is the democratic process and the 18 opinions that have to come to agreement which some times is quick and other times takes years.
All in all, it is better than going it alone.

Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on March 20, 2008 at 3:40pm

that sounds like the system is wired pretty tight which makes it safer for all when everyone is on the same page
the 18-headed monster has to be troublesome at times and i guess some times old thinking really bogs down progressive thinking
all in all though, safety is enhanced and the fireground ina safer place
imagine if you all had to consoliodate to one contract, one start time, vacation rules, etc. -- and i thought putting 5 depts together was a nighmare
good feedback
stay safe out there
aa

Permalink Reply by Kevin Keddy on May 3, 2008 at 1:58pm

This is a topic very near and dear to me. The Asbury Park Fire Department is a small career fire department that responds to over 6,000 incidents per year providing the same broad range of of services that most fire departments provide including EMS. This is done with an on-duty minimum staffing of 8 people. Below I have attached a link to our position statement on regionalization and a link to a recent article in the Asbury Park Press regarding this topic.

I would love to hear some feedback.

Attachments:

• statement on regionalization(May 08).pdf, 30 KB

Permalink Reply by Kevin Keddy on May 3, 2008 at 2:21pm

Woops! I'm still figuring this site out.

Attachments:

• Asbury Park Press.htm, 102 KB

Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on May 3, 2008 at 3:18pm

i like your argument chief
unfortuantely the shackles of tradition are hard to break and those who cannot see a perfect solution from regionalization down there are just fighting with tradition, not sense.
this may piss alot of peope off but i mentioned it at MCFA -- volunteering is the most noble of causes and should be highly commended and I respect them greatly, but the fact is that it is getting harder and harder to field and maintain a strong volunteer force. The demands on thier time is greater than most people can afford and it is dangerous to do this job halfway. Paying them and/or regionalizing the service makes great economic and most importantly safety sense.
Did you ever notice that there are no volunteer police depts and if your pipe breaks, you don't find a volunteer plumber. There are also no volunteer lawyers or mayors out there. All FD's should be paid as well as all EMS -- the dedication the volunteers have should be compensated by paying them -- that's just one guy's opinion