GROUND ZERO BEACON

Comment

Comment by Lisa Marie on August 17, 2010 at 11:35pm

Men and women gave up their lives that day for a country that is so unappreciative. It's disgusting and a disgrace that all they get is a mosque? What a slap in the face. America goes out of it's way for all the wrong people. Let's make sure all the immigrants in this country get a job before the people who are US citizen's. Let's make sure the other countries are ok before the US is...it's sad to say but America is turning to crap.

Comment by Bob Carpenter on August 17, 2010 at 8:19pm

Wise words, Bobby. I hope that wisdom and good judgement surfaces soon on this. Otherwise, a picked scab can sometimes bleed worse than the original wound.

Comment by John K. Murphy on August 17, 2010 at 7:55pm

I once heard the phrase that "not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim". Is that true? What will this mosque do to heal this nation? Nothing - it will only continue to polarize this nation’s citizens and continue to drive a wedge between those who have certain religious beliefs. I too am not an Islamophobe but when there is a religious group that has taken it upon themselves to declare war on the rest of the “unbelievers” and to “kill the infidels”, then this group or its radical elements should not plant their flag and belief system on or near Ground Zero. I also share the opinion of 68% of this nation’s citizens that this mosque should not be built in this location.

Bobby’s statements that submission to a certain belief system is not an option for this Nation is right on point. We do need to coexist as a nation of differing religious beliefs and certain freedoms under the law. I do not see this same freedom from a belief system that oppresses women; suppresses education for young women; stones to death its citizens or flogs and then shoots their own citizens to death when they violate a tenant within their belief system.

It is just WRONG to place this mosque in this location and Paul; again, you are right on with this illustration

Comment by A. David Vasquez, Sr. on August 17, 2010 at 7:24pm

repost of original deleted comment:

"Okay Paul, I'll try.

You got it wrong - Its not a mosque, its a community center. The Y isn't a church, a hospital with a chapel isn't a church, so this community center isn't a mosque. Its not a Ground Zero, its almost a quarter mile away. An actual mosque is only two more blocks away. http://nyti.ms/ahO5Hw for a graphic. Why isn't a strip club desecration? Why aren't people up in arms about that?

You're passing it on wrong - As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out. You're taking bad information and passing it on to others as fact.

It can only end wrong - By continuing the spread of bad information, you are feeding the flames of hate and distrust in this country. The extremists will point to your artwork as further justification of their misplaced ideals. No, I don't mean Islamic extremists.

Becoming the bureaucracy - see the above.

I grieve for my brothers lost on that day, as well as all the others. I don't see where striking a match to an already burning blaze does anything productive. Freedom isn't free or easy, but its worth fighting for and protecting. I feel that in this case, not saying anything would have been better than what you said with your artwork. I can't call it a cartoon, sorry. "

Paul, the getting it wrong was about 2 things - calling a community center just a mosque, and saying it was being built at Ground Zero. You've done both, and they're both wrong. Even your response identifies it as more than just a mosque. Thank you for illustrating my point.

When I lose a loved one, I may cherish the ground they died on, but not the building down the street. They are not the same. You got it wrong by passing on that wrong information. Even Zuhdi Jasser, the person you quote, uses that wrong information as to its location. Also, extremists declared war on America long before they crashed planes into our buildings. Bombings (including at WTC), kidnappings, and hijackings were the first evidence of that long ago.

A healthy debate is a good thing. It has been truly lacking lately. The complete polarization of society is unproductive. That one person can and does get in the way of something is both a hindrance and a tribute to our freedom and way of life. Most Americans will shout you down, denying you the very freedom they demand for themselves. Being a U.S. citizen isn't easy, because freedom isn't easy. You have to work hard to protect and keep it. As you exercise your freedoms, you have to defend the persons who's exercise of their freedoms you most revile and would never believe. To do anything other would make you unamerican. Positive and constructive debate isn't what's typically going on here. Extremists are trying to control and steer the discussion, and forgetting that what they would have you believe that their rhetoric is the truth. They use half-truths and opinion as facts. Most people, too busy, disinterested, or lazy will take those "facts" as truth. So far, that has not been the case here. I hope it continues that way. Outside of this forum, in conversations at home and at the firehouse, I'm sure, based on past experience, that will not be the case. As has happened time and time again, your artwork will be posted on walls and in lockers across the country and around the world. You have given a face, in and for the fire service, of our fears and prejudices. I honestly fear that it will be used as an example for those wanting to believe the worst of this honored profession and this honorable country. I know you have a right to draw it, I just wish you hadn't. That's my opinion.

Bobby, thank you for your comments. I brought up the strippers only to illustrate that there are already some "unholy" things in that area. I didn't mention the bars, liquor sellers, or other illegal/immoral/unethical things because I couldn't say for sure. Adding another mosque into the area, in furtherance of our American freedoms, should be okay. My opinion.

As to the zoning to exclude religions, WOW! I believe your line of thinking, that only federal laws are not allowed to abridge the practice of religion, is a little odd. I can't figure out, are you proposing or suggesting that now, after all the boards have approved it being built, that now a new zoning ordinance should be enacted to prevent it being built? My hope is that you are not. What's important to remember is that those that could have a say in preventing it have pretty much already had their say. Their voice said "okay". Only those that don't have a say in this are still trying to say something. One more thing, the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 (RLUIPA).

Non Muslim religions have killed scores of people, yet they are allowed to practice here freely and openly. Religious extremists of all shapes and sizes have caused havoc the world over. To say many lives have been lost over religion would be an incredible understatement. But here, in the United States of America, we promote religious freedom. Our soldiers fight and die for it and other freedoms. To not cherish and embrace our freedoms would only cheapen and denigrate their sacrifices.

Apologies for the length, its basically a double posting.

Comment by Paul Combs on August 17, 2010 at 4:47pm

Thank you for your response, David - I believe I remember most of your comments and will try and state my position on each.

"You got it wrong" - The NYC Community Board, Manhattan Borough President, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (Head of the Cordoba Institute) refer to this facility as a Mosque/Community Center. It is a proposed $100 million Mosque, 500 seat auditorium, swimming pool, restaurant, and book store.

"You're passing on wrong" - Zuhdi Jasser, a physician, US Navy veteran, and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy says this, “For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays — not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement,’’ Jasser said. “Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us as Americans.’’ To use that space for Muslim outreach, he argues, is “the worst form of misjudgment.’’ Boston Globe.

"It can only end wrong" - Debating a topic in this country is as old as, well, this country, David. I see nothing wrong with "positive and constructive" debate. I will agree that there are those that will inflame the issue, but, unfortunately people will find any fuel to ignite an issue.

If I've missed anything, please ask again, David.

Comment by Paul Combs on August 17, 2010 at 3:18pm

Ok, David - enlighten me.

Comment by A. David Vasquez, Sr. on August 17, 2010 at 3:14pm

You got it wrong, your passing on wrong, and it can only end wrong. Congratulations on becoming the bureaucracy!

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