Fighting fear driven tactics!!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ron Becknell on January 5, 2012 at 8:20pm

AMEN!!!  Well said brother.  I sat through 2 days at a Health and Safety Seminar and all these 2 guys talked about was how in Europe they only go in if there is a confirmed entrapment and their LODD is much lower than the USA.  The second day they put some pictures up of different scenes and asked for suggestions on how to handle them, risk vs. benefit type stuff.  I thought they were going to flip when I said I would cut the roof on a 3 story apartment building with heavy fire some coming through the roof.  I explained that I would vent the roof (preferably a trench cut) one unit down from the involved units to prevent further fire progression and loose the entire apartment complex.

What amazed me was all the people in that seminar thinking this was the greatest information ever, while me and a firefighter from my department were about to explode just thinking WTF.  Maybe we are behind the times, I still think that firefighters should ...well uh... FIGHT FIRE!

I believe part of the correction to this problem is more live burns in acquired structures.  I see a huge difference in members that were trained with live burns and those that have only been in the burn building.  When the newer guys go interior and do not see 2 pallets and a bail of hay burning in the corner of the room they do not know what to do.  And if it is hidden fire with a lot of smoke they are somewhat clueless.  We try to train them as much as possible for these conditions but there is only so much you can do without a building you can tear up.

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on January 5, 2012 at 8:31pm

Ron,

I totally agree man, I feel that if we would reach out there and do hard core training then we would be able to enhance the training that the new members receive. Risk analysis is great in my opinion, my only issue with it is that it has been laid out so much that WE the guys on the street don’t hardly get to analyze anything! If there’s fire, then there is to must risk! Haha that’s the way it seems at least. Thanks for the input Ron    

Permalink Reply by Ron Becknell on January 5, 2012 at 9:05pm

Anytime.  I can only imagine what some would say about things I have done, not that I would advise repeating them.  That's one thing I love about being an Asst. Chief in a small volunteer department, when we assist another department and even sometimes in our primary response area, I still get a chance to pack up and go "in with the guys" so that I can see first hand  how they are handling things and it provides me the opportunity for some On the Job Training.  I think this may be another problem at least with our current training programs run by the state of SC.  People receive training up to Firefighter II and "think" that because of that certificate they know everything they need to know, this by the way means they have participated 2-3 live burns in a metal burn tower. It seems the concept of firefighting being an apprenticeship program is being lost.  The "true" work and act of firefighting cannot be taught in a classroom or fully taught even in a burn tower.  Those things are a good foundation to build on but they are long way from building the house.

Thanks

Dan Rice said:

Ron,

I totally agree man, I feel that if we would reach out there and do hard core training then we would be able to enhance the training that the new members receive. Risk analysis is great in my opinion, my only issue with it is that it has been laid out so much that WE the guys on the street don’t hardly get to analyze anything! If there’s fire, then there is to must risk! Haha that’s the way it seems at least. Thanks for the input Ron    

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on January 8, 2012 at 9:29pm

The biggest issue that is fighting against doing burns in acquired structures is cost and liability. I think this is something that the departments should spring for, but there are so many chiefs that don't put it in their budget, or are scared of the liability that it very rarely happens, at least in or area these seem to be the issues.

As far as the attitudes when the rooks come out of school I understand. We tend to control this in house with a stern probationary program and it goes fairly well. We have a few thing established to allow for more otj training once they come out of fire school

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on January 10, 2012 at 12:46am

Rob,
what does your department do to help instil this attitude we are talking about in your young members? You mentioned live burns and things of that nature, but what else? Just curious and also wa
nt to get some ideas out there.

Permalink Reply by J.B. Clark, Jr. on February 23, 2012 at 11:48am

I agree. And no interior attack may come sooner than we think! Check out the comments on Firehouse.com blogs to B/C John Salka, FDNY article called "Transitional Attack is Whack" You have thought Chief Salka had spit on their mothers grave!

FTM-PTB

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on February 23, 2012 at 3:10pm

I read the article and assumed it would cause an absolute uproar with the frightened group of guys. The biggest thing we can do is support the words we agree with without waving from one side to the other. Be strong and stand your ground against these teachers of fear.