Truck and Engine Company Coordination on the Fireground

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Permalink Reply by Erich Roden on March 18, 2008 at 4:55pm

Lots to answer...I'll take a stab at a few...

The late Tom Brennan perhaps put it best (paraphrased): If the Engine in your house is first due, the Engine goes first, Truck second; conversely, if the Engine in your house is NOT first due, the Truck goes first...This is how my job operates, but there are some jobs that want the Truck to enter the block first. I feel there is big problem with this. Your thoughts, rebuttals?

With regards to timing ventilation, the Engine Officer must ensure the Truck Boss and or Outside Vent Firefighter(s) are listening to the radio. Taking out windows before the line is stretched, placed and ready to operate (in that order) is unprofessional (unless it's from the inside by those searching). Overzealous Outside Vent Firefighters are often the cause of Engines being chased out of the fire area. As for the Engine, when the vent is called for, give the Truck time to finish taking out the glass, curtains (my wife calls them "window treatments"), etc. (at least a few more seconds if possible) before opening the line. No one likes taking a puss full of smoke mixed with glass!

As for the primary search coordination...let me twist the knife a little into those who are co-dependent on searching with a line...The search should begin as soon as entry is made if possible. Most often, hopefully in most jobs, the line is being stretched simultaneously as the Truck is taking the door. The Truck usually likes to get into the fire area and conduct a search once the door is opened (refer this group's discussion on "the can"). However, if heavy fire gives you pause because the Engine has not yet called for water, consider whether or not you want a ride to medal day in a burn center limo...In other words, searching without a line makes the search faster and more productive; however, no one will fault you if you decided to wait for a line. Odds are, others wouldn't make a move without one as well in the same conditions.

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on March 19, 2008 at 1:40pm

The best way we have found in Albuquerque to address this problem is in the training phase; apparatus driver school (the driver's academy) and officers in officers development school. Both groups are instructed in the proper placement of engines and ladders to a given set of circumstances.
If the engine is first to arrive, the driver will position his apparatus to leave room for the incoming ladder company. In fact, more times than not, the engine will arrive first. A good engine driver will leave room for the incoming ladder.
Drivers are instructed during driver school in the proper positioning of apparatus as well as instructed in their responsibility to the company officer in advising (reminding) him of the proper placement of the apparatus during an alarm. A good driver will provide suggestions to the company officer to aid him in his decision making process.
The philosophy is simple. The officer is in ultimately charge. But, just like the President of the U.S., the company officer has people below him to advise him and aid him in his decision making process. In fact, it could be argued that company members that are not observant and have nothing to offer the boss are not doing their jobs and are a burden to the officer.
The placement of apparatus is reviewed in officer development school. Coordination between engine and truck company operations on scene is taught in the officer development school as well as being part of the core knowledge base that all potential candidates study when preparing for the lieutenants promotion test. The reading list for promotion to company officer includes all of this type of information.
Again, the basic belief is that this information should be instilled during training and studying for promotion. That way, the information is programmed in before the alarm and should be at the fingertips of those making the decisions.
The timing and coordination of specific jobs on scene will be situational dependent and will take into account the amount of fire that is showing, the rescue profile, weather conditions and the basic physical layout of the occupancy and the street

Permalink Reply by Mark Gregory on March 19, 2008 at 6:50pm

In my house, the engine generally goes in ahead of the truck. They secure a hydrant and get out of the way for us since we have a limited scrub area to hit. Where Engine Companies get in the way is when Preconnects are in play. I have seen this in my hometown dept. Preconnects put the engine in front where the truck should be. How about this for a topic, floor above operations, do we (the truck company) communicate with the engine as we prepare to "go above". Although assigned to a truck, I like to know who in the Engine has the nozzle. This helps to set my plan for fireground ops. If we are 2nd due truck and going above, I make my "contract" with the nozzleman. Simply, stated "who's got the line, This is 111, we are going above". Now, the stage is set. I know who has my back if the chips are down or whose butt I'll kick for leaving us. The nozzleman holds his position til I contact him (verbally or via handi talkie) to let him know we are out of harm's way.

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Barry, Sr. on March 20, 2008 at 9:12am

Mark:

You make a good point with reference to your comment on the dependence upon preconnect handlines leading to congestion in the front of the fire building-I know this has been an issue in this area. As you indicated, one of the best reasons to get this conversation started is to better coordinate apparatus positioning in order to maximize the scrub area that the aerial can utilize. We find this to especially become evident as greater alarms are transmitted, and apparatus positioning becomes haphazard limiting access for truck companies due on the additional alarms.

Although rear mount aerials (100' and 110') can be very forgiving, apparatus positioning can make all the difference with mid-mount aerials in particular, and 75' aerial trucks. Especially when it comes to whether or not the aerial will make the roof.

I know one area that I had not considered was your point in assuring that the nozzleman knows your location above the fire, and more importantly that he/she understands their responsibility to be prepared to take action to protect the truck company members should conditions derteriorate. This is definitely something we will be talking about. I think this would make for a great individual discussion.

Be Safe,

Chris

Permalink Reply by David DeStefano on March 21, 2008 at 9:57pm

The age old question, who goes first the engine or the truck? The brother on housewatch has it exactly right as far as our job is concerned. If the engine in our house is first due they can pull past the building getting a three sided look before they get off the rig. They can also strech more efficiently as our engine cos are set up with pre connects off the rear. The first due truck gets the best position available on side 1. Out of district the truck going first gives us access to the block before it gets obstructed by engines "parked and locked" on the street.

As far as the primary, ideally the first in ladder co. should move in to find the location of the fire if its not obvious. Direct the engine and search from the seat of the fire back out as the engine stretches in putting their wet stuff between us, the vicitms, the way out, and the fire.