Engineered Floor Systems

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on December 17, 2008 at 4:06pm

Matt, this is a great video, it's also on another disscussion on CSF. Here's a good class to take back to Jeff, . You can find it on the Underwriters Laboratories website, free training, Structural Stability of Engineered Lumber in Fire Conditions. I completely believe this type of construction is an eye opener for the entire fire service. The floor is ready to let go by the time the first line is ready to be advanced. We are putting a presentation together at Crestwood on this, when it's finished, I can try to get to you and Jeff. Let Me Know.

Stay Safe Jeff

Permalink Reply by Matthew J. Mayer Jr. on December 17, 2008 at 4:51pm

Thanks for the info, Jeff. I will check out the other discussions on floor systems on CSF.

Matt Mayer Jr.

Jeff Schwering said:

Matt, this is a great video, it's also on another disscussion on CSF. Here's a good class to take back to Jeff, . You can find it on the Underwriters Laboratories website, free training, Structural Stability of Engineered Lumber in Fire Conditions. I completely believe this type of construction is an eye opener for the entire fire service. The floor is ready to let go by the time the first line is ready to be advanced. We are putting a presentation together at Crestwood on this, when it's finished, I can try to get to you and Jeff. Let Me Know.

Stay Safe Jeff

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 17, 2008 at 7:29pm

Matt,
Thnaks for adding this to CSF. I was going to do it, but I like when others start the discussions because then I can comment rather than moderate. It has been rumored that I talk about this stuff too much and I don't want to over do it.
The first thing problem is identifiaction of the truss. In this video with the guys from Milwaukee FD were endagnered due to the "disguise" that the truss were wearing when they arrived on the scene. In other words , how the fire building presented itself when the FD arrived. I think this is scary. We're at a disadvanctage because the structure doesn;t lend itself to a good size up due to it looking like an older structure, wehen in fact , it is really a Light weight frame constructed building when the orignal floor joists are removed and truss installed. We also have them in Chgo. It was in an article named "Preplanning Residential Fires" from Jan 2004 F/E that shows a 100 year old townhouse rehhabed with them.
As I say identification is the problem -- What should depts do to determine if a building has truss inside?

Permalink Reply by Art Zern on December 17, 2008 at 8:11pm

Gents,

Here is some additional info on the UL information. Underwriters Laboratories has created their UL University as a new online learning tool. You can visit the site at: http://www.uluniversity.us/home.aspx follow the Fire online link to Structural Stability of Engineered Lumber in Fire Conditions to go through their training program that is directly related to this discussion.

Art

Permalink Reply by Matthew J. Mayer Jr. on December 17, 2008 at 10:14pm

That is some great information guys. Thanks for sharing. Identification is definitely our first issue. I must say that I always try to make myself aware of the possibility of floor systems when we pull up on a new home. However, I have never thought about them being placed in old, rehabilitated homes. New construction often allows us the chance for walk-throughs and pre-plans whereas these old homes do not. I'm not sure of any way that you could possibly rule out these trusses on any older home completely. If someone out there does know a way, please share.

Permalink Reply by Art Zern on December 17, 2008 at 10:23pm

Matt,

Take a look at the Trick size-up problem thread on Common Sense Firefighting. We dicsussed some common sense size-up considerations regarding rehabbed and tear down homes.

Art

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on December 17, 2008 at 10:56pm

Art,

Thanks for adding the website, my computer was having issues today. That class was two hours well spent. Matt, talk to your Fire Marshal, ask him to get involved in letting your companies know about the remodled homes, that he knows of currently. We got our A/C involved, that's who is working on most of the presentation. I know you guys are up to eyes in new construction, I live just out of RCFPD's District. Assume everything is lightweight on the new homes, floors and roofs, alike. We have a small time window to get a fire knocked down safely anymore

Stay Safe
Jeff.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 23, 2008 at 5:34pm

Jeff
What do you guys do to determine if you're going inside a Lt Wt frame constructed building for an interior attack? What are the parameters?

Jeff Schwering said:

Art,

Thanks for adding the website, my computer was having issues today. That class was two hours well spent. Matt, talk to your Fire Marshal, ask him to get involved in letting your companies know about the remodled homes, that he knows of currently. We got our A/C involved, that's who is working on most of the presentation. I know you guys are up to eyes in new construction, I live just out of RCFPD's District. Assume everything is lightweight on the new homes, floors and roofs, alike. We have a small time window to get a fire knocked down safely anymore

Stay Safe
Jeff.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on December 23, 2008 at 5:59pm

If I know for sure it's a light weight frame home, do I have a confirmed rescue on a human being, if yes, look at the % of the structure is involved. Is this a rescue or recovery, gut makes that call. My rule of thumb on these fires, is double the time the owner says it has been burning. Owner says 5min, make it 10 mins. For me, most of this can be done while I'm taking my lap around the structure. Conditions like heavy fire from the basement window or roof line make it an easier call. That's a great question Jim, makes me stop and think to put it into words, guess I'm on automatic pilot, on these fires, because I sure don't want myself or my guys or gals to be a statistic.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on January 5, 2009 at 7:59pm

I know what you are saying, Jeff. How do we put it into words to pass it on. Let's take this over to the truss construction thread on CSF.

Jeff Schwering said:

If I know for sure it's a light weight frame home, do I have a confirmed rescue on a human being, if yes, look at the % of the structure is involved. Is this a rescue or recovery, gut makes that call. My rule of thumb on these fires, is double the time the owner says it has been burning. Owner says 5min, make it 10 mins. For me, most of this can be done while I'm taking my lap around the structure. Conditions like heavy fire from the basement window or roof line make it an easier call. That's a great question Jim, makes me stop and think to put it into words, guess I'm on automatic pilot, on these fires, because I sure don't want myself or my guys or gals to be a statistic.