Let's talk about this one. Search and Rescue Decision. Unusual but it worked.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on January 2, 2009 at 8:05pm

Thanks for the discussion Mike
Wow, That's tactical disipline to not hit that fire t the doorway before going in! I know I wasn;'t there but how was the path of egress out where the fire was not knocked down? It looks like it was kinda small. I'd be concerned bout egress. The breach idea is good. Did they have a good location on the victim to go by before the breach?

Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on January 2, 2009 at 10:48pm

They brought the person out the front door! I don't think I would have gotten away with that in a million years but God bless em, they saved the dudes life.

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on January 3, 2009 at 12:13am

-WOW!!!!!!
-To save a life...
-Balls? Oh yeah; big cast iron ones! Tactically correct? You bet! They heard screams for help. This is a High Rescue Profile situation that falls with the parameters of being able to disregard the Two In/Two Out rule based on a KNOWN VICTIM in need of rescue.
-Sounds like the correct, professional, disciplined decisions were made in order to save a life. The survivability of the victim was placed ahead of the survivability of the structure.
-The rescue was executed in less than three minutes.
-Well done!!!
-Stay safe,
BRICK

Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on January 3, 2009 at 11:40am

Talk about thinking firemen...It takes a lot of knowledge and skill to make a tactical decision like this. I think that the Locate, Confine and Extinguish is so ingrained in peoples heads that NOT putting water on the fire would be a huge challenge for sure. Everyone had to be on the same page for this rescue; one rogue ff could have ruined the whole thing!!

Nice job for sure!!

Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on January 3, 2009 at 11:53am

That is what impressed me too Chris, There were other crews and hoselines were stretched and they held off to allow the rescue to happen.

It looked like the fire was initially confined to the front porch, I noticed that when the searchers entered it didnt' appear to have too much fire on the interior and I also noticed the porch was modified for wheel chair access.

Another item that I'm curious about is the security door at the entrance. If that door was indeed secured as designed, the crews did a fantastic job forcing entry. That would be a good discussion too as to what methods you all use to force through those,

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on January 3, 2009 at 12:23pm

What an outstanding job of all members being on the same sheet of music. The first arriving companies obviously communicated well to incoming apparatus to not only ensure the victim's safety, but theirs also. Additional lines stretched, enough manpower on the scene. Great Job! I have to agree with Brick, CAST IRON!

Permalink Reply by Todd Trudeau on January 3, 2009 at 1:50pm

Helmets off to 19! What a display of dedication, teamwork, professionalism and demonstration of what this job is all about. That stuff doesn't "just happen", constant crew training and discussion ensures that the best shot will be made though. Nice Job!

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on January 4, 2009 at 8:47pm

A question on this is - what would the "witness " of the fire victim's location have to say so the FF's would do this? What does a person have to do for us to believe the witness report on the scene? Has anybody ever had a civilain on the scene of a fire tell you that someone was trapped inside the building? Should we confirm it before we go in for this or just go on the witnesses report to us?

Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on January 5, 2009 at 9:56am

Great comments,

First to Jim's question about the witness; According to the write up, crews could hear the victim, access through the back was blocked and a crew was working to gain a more direct access to the victim while the other search crew went through the front door and I guess the front door search team made it to the victim before the other guys did.

To Chris' comments: I can only assume that crews were concerned that hitting the fire at all would jeapordize the victim's well being due to steam.

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on January 5, 2009 at 1:00pm

-Jim,
there has to be a High Rescue Profile for the crews to do this. In other words there must be direct knowledge or a very high suspicion of the location of the victim; the same parameters that guide VES are applicable.
-An example of this would be the responding companies seeing the victim in peril or hearing the victims cries for help. Another example would be an occupant or family member and they convey specific information like saying that little Bobbie is missing and "that's his room right there". In this instance the occupant has specific knowledge such as a name and a location of the missing.
-Stay safe.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on January 5, 2009 at 6:13pm

Chris S
There ain't no jumping here, Budd
I think you make a good point. could the nozzle just be opened enough to dribble the water on the fire burning at the point of egress? I think so. the roof line is low enogh. Another line could , maybe , be brought to protect the doorway out if possible. For me, this is just admitted Monday morning quarter backing and trying to learn what I can! They did do a great job and they are heros to me!
Like Mike W and Mike B said you gotta know to make a decision like that. It falls into place but things could also happen that we don;t know about. The one thing in making decisions on the fire ground is we can only make them based on what we know rigth then. Like viewing the videos, we only get the one perspective on the situation. For me, that's where the coordinated fire attack comes in.