Buddy System

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Todd McKee on April 26, 2008 at 7:14pm

Thank you Brent I am going to wait for a few more replies before I say.

Permalink Reply by James Taylor on April 28, 2008 at 1:25am

I know most people will say that for every 2 people that go in, 2 people are waiting outside. However, I have seen in many publications, SOGs/SOPs, heard in lectures, that 2 in 2 out actually means that if 2 OR MORE people go in, 2 people are waiting outside to effect rescue.

As the majority of us know, (or at least I sure hope most of us do), that the actual effectiveness of 2 firefighters attempting to rescue another downed firefighter is about nil. You can (sadly) read tons of actual stories about the fact that it seems to take 8 to 10 firefighters to rescue one firefighter in trouble, and even then its not a certainty that the rescue will be successful. To say that 2 people outside the hot zone will be able to rescue 2 firefighters in the zone is wishing on dreams and happy thoughts.

I don't know if this is truth, but I can remember talk waaaay back, when the two in - two out concept was being developed, that it's actual purpose was to attempt to stop local governments from reducing firefighter staffing. Since somehow it seems the concept was warped by faceless government entities, it seems like a lame "safety" rule to have.

I think a better wording of the intent for the safety aspect would be: "Incident Commanders will maintain an adequate reserve of trained personnel on scene to affect rescue of any entry personnel, with a minimum of 3:1 ratio of rescuers to entry members." (yeah, I know, now I'm wishing on dreams and happy thoughts, but if they can do it, I figure I can too.)

I know the intent of safety is in there, and I know that the lawmakers and big heads are trying, but I think the actual implementation of the concept has been a big CF. (the C is for Cluster, you can figure out the rest)

I'm not saying I'm the expert on this. I'm just giving my 2 cents since it was asked for.

Permalink Reply by Pete Bendinelli on April 28, 2008 at 9:31am

I am with MABAS 24 Haz Mat team(South suburbs of Chicago). We use three man entry teams and prior to entry, the back up team must be 90% dressed (just need to go on air and zipped). That is our plan. However two in two out to fire personnel may be different. They may be counting command level people and engineers as thier "two out." And then there is the life hazard waiver that is always applied to get around the whole thing. I always try to explain the difference between fire and haz mat.

Permalink Reply by Todd McKee on April 28, 2008 at 10:56am

Thanks Bro! The buddy system is TWO in and TWO out. However all around that I speak they really do not know the true meaning. The true meaning is that you have two people in side doing the work and you have two out side to back them up for emergency purposes only. So if we have 4 in we should have 4 out even in Hazmat it should be that way. Be safe

Permalink Reply by Todd McKee on April 28, 2008 at 11:01am

Raises soem thought HUH Brother.... THanks! I also would say that you have two in and two out but if you could have two in and 4 out yes your right it is better and that is just a minuimum standard. BE safe and train