Topics in Forcible Entry for Truck Companies

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Barry, Sr. on April 22, 2008 at 2:48pm

Mark:

What are they made of, and how are they attached?

Thanks,

Chris

Permalink Reply by Mark Gregory on April 22, 2008 at 2:52pm

They are made of lightweight steel and are hung several different ways. One way is using a turn-buckle type device which secures through a piece of street post steel that is braced on the the window frame. I will send pics to show you...

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Barry, Sr. on April 22, 2008 at 2:59pm

Thanks, Mark

Permalink Reply by John Mogan on April 22, 2008 at 3:02pm

These windows are EVERYWHERE on vacant building here.Altho i have not personally experienced a fire in a building with them yet. Other shifts have and they are a PAIN IN THE A**. Make Burgalar Bars look like butter. They issued us a paid of snipper to cut the cable that secures them to the frame inside "WHY" I dunno if it is charged with smoke and Heat/Fire they are useless. I also know of at least 3 different types of access doors all that present there own challenge.

The use of the metal saw burns thru blades quickly, and someone was told to attack the hinges of the doors with a small V type cut on doors that provide no visible locking mechanism. I will work on getting some photos here and a video on youtube I came across if i can remember where I saw it.

Permalink Reply by Mark Gregory on April 22, 2008 at 3:09pm

From the inside they are easy to take. We have found that by bending the street sign post just a bit works or by loosening the turnbuckle. The outside seems to really be a pain....

Permalink Reply by Kyle Dillon on April 22, 2008 at 3:51pm

We encountered these at a vacant last summer and were lucky enough to find a rear door "unprotected" by the vps system. Once inside we used cutters to cut the cable that secures them and the window fell out of palce with a little force. It wasnt until overhaul that we realized you can loosen them with the turnbuckle, like you said Mark. Wish we wouldve found that out 30 minutes earlier...

Permalink Reply by Gregg Normandin on April 26, 2008 at 4:00pm

Chris & John,

I just took Forcible Entry @ FDIC with some FDNY jakes. We trained with this technique and I thought it went pretty good. The only thing that was different was we punched a h*** in the rolldown door with the Haligan before the vertical cut. The door is a lot more rigid then and the point went right through.

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Barry, Sr. on April 27, 2008 at 10:14am

Gregg:

Thanks for the info. Was there any time savings in your estimation?

-Chris

Permalink Reply by Gregg Normandin on April 29, 2008 at 2:48pm

Chris,

Yes, there was a time savings. As I mentioned the door is a lot more rigid and it took only one strike to get through the door for each h*** needed.

Gregg

Permalink Reply by Steve Gooley on April 30, 2008 at 4:47am

Thats the same approach we would take. The training prop you reference is going to be one of my next projects.

Permalink Reply by Chuck on May 2, 2008 at 11:13pm

Make vertical cuts with the saw about three inches in from either side on the horizontal bars. At about three inches the bars are usually hollow. Cut one side and pull it open like a door, usually defeats the anchors on the other side. Be prepared for anything.

Permalink Reply by Orlando Gonzalez on May 3, 2008 at 11:05pm

The inverted "V" cut is not recommended down here in Miami-Dade. For example, you have two lines going in through this small opening plus you may also have a search crew conducting a search. Conditions inside deteriorate and everybody has to get out quick. At this point you have 12 to 15 guys in side trying to get out this small opening creating a traffic jam. Another note, the edges of the h*** you have just created is sharp which could possibly cause damage to your hose, bunker gear, or even to firefighters themselves. Using an office door as an alternative could be more hazardous. Most warehouses that I have encountered will usually have storage or more office space above the office your entering. This area is usually against firecode,buildingcode and any other code you could find. And not much effort is put into creating this space above the office. You add heavy fire load conditions and you have death trap. Think twice about entering through the office.

The method of pulling the slats out works. I've used it on drills. Our overhead doors that have the slats might have hurricane rivits in the rails to prevent the strong hurricane force winds from pushing the door out of its rails. So we would have to try another method.

My favorite for ventilation and entry is to create tha largest opening possible. You would make your first cut a verticle cut on the outer edge of the overhead door. If available, use your tallest firefighter for this task. Make sure you cut all the way through the bottom of the door. You can place a halligan parallel to the door and use it as a folcrum for the roof hook or pry bar to lift the door so your saw man can complete his cut. Your second cut will be a horizontal cut overlapping your verical cut all the way across the overhead door. Use the same tall guy for this cut as well. Now you can pull the h*** door and swing it outward, creating a very large opening for multiple crews to enter and exit without climbing over each other.

Remember to always size-up the door because naturally not every method works on every.

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