Unions? What do you think?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on September 16, 2009 at 8:26pm

Very well said Ben, you are the man of words!

Be Safe
Jeff

Permalink Reply by Ben Fleagle on September 16, 2009 at 11:10pm

I appreciate the props, but really I've just been giving "Brotherhood and Leadership" a significant amount of my time. I see good union actions out there, that's one reason we have considered going union. I've seen some really bonehead stuff too. Same for management. We have it really good in our department, so the members feel like "why rock the boat?". What frustrates me is all the "leadership" training that has nothing to do with leadership, and the talk of Brotherhood that has nothing to do with Brotherhood. So I can see both sides of the coin. Far too often, heads are down. Just because you are in the position to represent all of the union brothers, or lead the department, does not a leader make.

Both of you press on! This is good stuff!

Ben

Permalink Reply by Joe McClelland on September 19, 2009 at 3:17pm

Why are we so against not allowing someone to not make probation if they do not make the cut? The probation period on my job is for 18 months.That should be more than enough time to figure out if someone is going to make it or not. Why do we keep problem children, then complain about how much they suck for the next 20 years? Now yes, we do sometimes inherit the problem from years past, but why should the practice be allowed to continue.

It is a brotherhood, and some should not be allowed in!! This is why we have lists. If someone does not cut it, go to the next one. But for some reason, we do not like to do that either. Once a bonehead is in the union, it is hard to get them out. I am 100% union proud, but maybe probies should not be allowed in the union until they make probation and the membership, depending on size, should vote on them. Their training jacket should be included as well. If they do not cut it, they are gone. No hassle, no problems. Next in line comes on. This way no union issue.

But for the current union problem, that is a hard one. Maybe we can write in an escape clause in our contracts to get the slugs out when needed.

Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on September 19, 2009 at 5:51pm

That's a great point Joe and I wish I knew an absolute answer. Sometimes I know an employee can make it through their probabation just fine and then their true colors come through. An old Lt. once said, "the worse thing that happens to new boys is that they get their year on." Oh how true that is in some instances.

On the other hand, there are times when the signs are there and the evaluating officers don't have the guts to do what is right and properly document deficient performance. Other times, the probie does just enough to fulfill the requirements which makes it difficult to point out a good enough reason to fire them. I wish there were some way to evaluate attitude and I wish the officer's intuative impression about the probationary employee could factor in more.

In my department, the probie is given union protection as soon as they get out of the academy, which chaps my hide. The union wants to sign them up in the local as soon as possible because if they don't let them join the union until they end their probation, there is a real chance the person won't join the union. And to be fair, depending on state law, the union may be legally obligated to represent every employee in the department whether they are a dues paying member or not.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on September 19, 2009 at 6:35pm

Great point, both to Joe and Mike. Many times, some folks do ok for the year probie time and tend, I've heard, to show true colors, after that wand of probation passes. Joe you make a good point about an escape clause, but I believe that would be a heck of a fight, to include something like that, needed or not. Mike, it would be nice to be able to, at times, use the officer's gut feeling about a probationary employee. That's another perfect world scenerio and almost a whole other topic. As a boss we need to hopefully, push to get as much out of the new member as possible, to see potential or lack there of. As the saying goes, When in doubt lead" have the backbone to make a decision.

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