You're senior member on the scene, Get the job done!

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on February 24, 2009 at 3:22pm

Ok Jim, I'll give it a go. If my engine is first on the scene, command is mine till relieved by the truck officer, who doesn't have time to take it, because of a rescue, or the first due chief. My guys would have had water on that fire. Put out the fire, problems go away. The fire was rapidly spreading, if it was hit quick, the occupant may not have felt the need to jump. The truck's job is rescue, my company is tasked with putting the wet stuff on the red stuff. After the initial knock, get my line inside and protect the truck guys searching. Additional engines and trucks, open up, check for extension.

KTF
Jeff

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on February 25, 2009 at 11:58am

-First things first. I hope there is more equipment coming to this incident than just two companies. This incident will require more than just one engine and truck. Three engines and two trucks would definitely put me back in my comfort zone.
-As to the video, this is a routine fire scenario in which the Ladder needs to get aggressive with their search efforts and that includes laddering and gaining access to this occupancy from all sides possible. Just because one victim jumped does not mean there are no more victims inside. Remember, 33% of all fire victims are found with another victim.
-This is the time for aggressive search operations, aggressive ventilation as well as evaluating the need for implementing VES techniques based on available information on scene. Remember, VES is employed because of specific information and indicators, not to augment inadequate staffing.
-It cannot be overstated that the Ladder Co needs to be aggressive on this one, especially given the information in the video which paints the picture of the second floor being a tenable position for searching firefighters as well as victims in that location.
-The engine needs to step up the intensity level as well. (Not saying they didn't... just what I would expect) After cautiously knocking down the exterior fire (being careful and utilizing professional discipline so as to not drive the fire further inside) the engine needs to gain entry and protect the interior stairs until the search is complete. A back up line is also in order.
-Many will argue that, "If you put the fire out conditions will improve". In general I agree with this statement but not in this particular case. The mission of the engine co. in this video is to protect those members searching by keeping the fire in check until the search has been completed. Locate, Confine then Extinguish.
-Attacking the fire in this scenario will negatively alter the interior environment and cause a thermal inversion thus changing the environment to untenable possibly harming any victims even more so.
-We teach an acronym to our recruits for just such a scenario. LIP. Life safety, Incident stabilization, Property conservation. Life safety first... then Incident stabilization. Property conservation last.
-Attacking the fire first in this particular scenario would place the survivability of the structure ahead of the survivability of the occupants. Furthermore, the time needed for fire control is time that the victim continues to be exposed to heat, smoke and the superheated, poisonous air. The game clock doesn't stop for the victim either.
-This entire fire scenario is about life safety. And although all firefighters will answer that way, the tendency for many is still to reach for the inch and three quarter line and go rushing in to wrestle with the beast. "I'm a real fireman 'cause I'm throwin' water around makin' a difference". Far too many of our peers still believe and operate under the assumption that unless they have the nozzle they are aren't doing anything. Such an infinitesimal task in the entire firefighting scheme and it entices and traps to many in their thinking.
-None of this is intended to imply that attacking the fire first is incorrect. Rather, we should be evaluating and sizing up the specific needs better before we go rushing in with a hand line. In this particular video life safety takes precedence over fire suppression. The fire should be checked and controlled, preventing extension and protecting the searchers and possible victims until the completion of the search. But again, this is situational dependent.
-One last thing about these videos. I really wish that when firefighters take this footage they would include some voiceover information or even radio traffic instead of the super-cool sound track.... but hey, that's just my opinion. Guess I'm getting old.
KTF

Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on February 26, 2009 at 2:13pm

I think the first thing that needs to be done is get the fire knocked down at the front door. By doing this hopefully the guy in the window won't be concentrating on the flames and will actually wait for the ladder to be placed by a couple of members of the truck. The other two members of the truck need to get inside and get a search. Like Brick said just because one person is out doesn't mean that there isn't more on the inside.

Once the fire is knocked down in front the engine company needs to start making its way inside to confine that fire to where it is now, protect the interior stairs and also provide protection for the search team that is inside. Once this has been accomplished then you can go to work putting the fire out. Like other thoughts here you start throwing water around in a superheated environment who are you helping? You sure aren't helping the victims that could possibly still be inside and you are definitely not helping your brothers who are searching for said victims.