How Would You Attack This???

Comment

Comment by Mark Chera on January 27, 2009 at 10:09pm

Not to mention that the guys are standing up on the rig while it's driving, and nobody has a tank or mask on, at a fire involving a haz-mat. LOL

Comment by Mark Chera on January 27, 2009 at 10:07pm

First and second due engines should start getting lots of water onto THE TANK as fast as physically possible, from as safe a distance as possible, without extinguishing the fire blowing from the relief valves. Third due engine should get a line in place to hit the vehicle fire beneath the tank, and secure a water source, if for some reason the first and second due engines have been unable to (and they had better not be unable to. grrrrr.)

The last thing I ever want to do is extinguish the fire venting from the relief valves. The proper method of extinguishing the columns of flame from those relief valves is to remove the fuel, not add water/foam. Whether that means shutting off that valve (impossible), letting it burn until all fuel is expended, or cooling the tank until the relief valve closes (prefered). In this case, cooling the tank until the relief valve closes is the only way to safely extinguish this fire. As we know, the gas is now venting (and burning) due to an increase of pressure within the vessel, caused by the vehicle fire burning beneath it. So, starting at the start, we must remove the fire from impinging on the tank, and remove the heat, in order to remove the fuel from those jets at the relief valve. Cool the tank. It's going to be a long, boring afternoon on monitor guns, but a spectacular news story.

Not wanting to second guess the commander on this scene, and not having all the information, I still do believe these guys in the film did exactly the wrong thing by extinguishing the fire columns from the relief valves (I say "valves" plural, because I am unsure what that jet of fire is which is venting from the truck's right side). Is the gas propane, and heavier than air? How much gas will continue to vent, and sink, once the fire from the relief valves has been extinguished? Will that gas travel along the ground to an ignition source? Will the gas travel along the ground, inevitably coming within its explosive range, and find its ignition source back somewhere within the vehicle which was just a moment ago ON FIRE? (think any parts of it still may be hot???)

Just thinking out loud. If anyone already said all this, I agree with you. Who knows, maybe it's a lighter-than-air gas, and the incident commander is a Haz-Mat tech? lol

Comment by Robert Sanclemente on January 25, 2009 at 5:31pm

To begin with, size-up is critical. And from a safe distance, preferred. It's obvious on approach that something is under pressure.You should quickly determine it to be gas. The source can be a little tricky because of heavy smoke obscuring the tank. After all, this could have been a busted under ground gas line that found an ignition source from a nearby vehicle. But it's not. And our next concern becomes possible explosion (BLEVE). Bad for Lifesafety. OURS and the public's. While formulating a plan of attack, have PD restrict access and evacuate nearby buildings, if in danger. Now, how to handle the fire. The burning off of vented gas is a good thing. The vehicle burning underneath the tank and impinging on it, NOT SO GOOD! Will the rate of vent keep pace with the pressure build up and structural degradation of the tank? My concern would be to remove the fire from the tank, keep it cool and allow the gas inside to burn off until the relief valve closed. My particular Engine has a master stream, top mount with 360 degree rotation, that could be operated from a distance and use the appartus as a shield until the vehicle fire could be knocked down. My next focus would be to keep the tank cool until heat was no longer an issue.

Comment by Scott on January 23, 2009 at 7:33pm

Isnt it doing what it supposed to do its venting and burning off....so unless you can stop the leak dont you let it burn?? I may be wrong....not an officer so I guess I do as Im told

Comment by Brenda Tenney on January 23, 2009 at 6:01pm

Rob,am sorry I did not answer the question.Our FD would attack and scene like this from and distance,at first .Size up the scene,we would do what this team did.It all depends on what is on or in the vehical.

Comment by Brenda Tenney on January 23, 2009 at 5:55pm

Last year our fire depart went to and scene some thing like this one,on and rainy day,down and dirt road. The SUV was stolen and who ever stole it,sit it on fire,on top of that the SUV had bullets in it. Speaking of not getting close,some fire fighters was climbing and hill.I hit the ground,as the bullets went off. Law Enforcement came.It took no time for the SUV to burn up,fire fighters made sure all hot spots was out.
In such and case like this ,you never know when the fuel tank is going to blow up,stay far away.
On the other hand,if there is any one in the vehical ,make and quick decision,listen to the IC to determine what to do. I think that was and good video.Doing the right thing ,at the right time. And being safe.

Comment by Chris Whitby on January 22, 2009 at 8:25pm

First ALL personnel would be ordered away from the vehicle. Secondly I would set up unmanned monitors set to fog for vapor dispersion because now that they have totally extinguished the flames we have no Idea if the vehicle is still leaking propane. I would then get a recovery company to come in and remove any remaining propane form the tank.