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Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on April 6, 2008 at 5:00pm

Electronic Pump Panels.... I hate them! Years after we were forced to switch to this type of pump and after years worth of fire scenes seeing them in action, I can say without any hesitation, that these technological "improvements" haven't added to the safety and efficiency of a fire scene.

If the pump is in "Pressure" mode, it won't pump past a kink. If it is "RPM" the manufacter and mechanics will tell you not to because it doesn't have a relief valve in that setting.

If the computer detects any type of error, the whole think will shut down, without warning. Abruptly stop, nodda, zilch pumping.

If higher pressure lines are in operation and a larger lower pressure line is needed, good luck on getting the pressures right.

Oh! and let's not forget how they raise the price of apparatus......

I need a beer. I need a sedative..........

Permalink Reply by Jay Jackson on April 7, 2008 at 4:13pm

I am a firefighter that has been Riding Out of Grade (ROG) as an engineer for 3 years. As a ROG I have been floated to every station and have been able to Ride Up on all the units. I agree with the previous two brothers about the issues that affect engineers. We are on the process of making all the nozzles "uniform" throughtout the county. The problem with that is that only half are switched to the low pressure nozzles and of those not all have the same stem that have the same flow rate. The hardest thing after checking out the truck and finding which nozzles are where and what to pump them at is to remember which truck I am on while doing it. I have to make a list on a note pad as back up.

We have all gone to the electronic pump panels on our engines and tankers. The best way to run them is in RPM which you are not supposed to do. But, in PRESSURE even the slightest hiccup it will reder the system useless. You have to reset the whole thing before you can get the pressure up again. The best thing I have seen is "LOW SUPPLY" while hooked to a hydrant I know is flowing more than my pump capacitiy.

I guess that is why we are here. To make sure the things that the guys in the lab coats make don't kill our brothers.

Permalink Reply by Michael Rude on April 9, 2008 at 10:02am

I couldn't agree more to your last comment....I think even though new technology is a good thing, it actually is taking alot of the true training and learning curve out of it...How did we ever survive w/o computer guided equipment?? We learned it,trained on it, and became proficient at it...not relying on a computer to tell us how to do it...ok..enough of my soap box.

RudeDog

Permalink Reply by Joel Thacker on April 12, 2008 at 8:57pm

I would like to know what driver/engineer training programs departments are using to train pump operators and do you train operators annually. I have traveled the country teaching driver op programs only to find no structured program for current and future operators.

Permalink Reply by Greg Wyant on April 14, 2008 at 8:27pm

Brent
Where I come from we call an engineer without any training a KNOB PULLER but with the new pump panels I guess it would be BUTTON PUSHER. Engineers need to know what they are doing or they will get someone hurt or worse.
STAY LOW AND LET IT BLOW,,

Permalink Reply by Mike Walker on April 14, 2008 at 8:51pm

OH how I wish we still had manual pumps!

Permalink Reply by Joel Thacker on April 15, 2008 at 10:21am

Why not a 40 - 80 driving and pumping course for all engineers/chauffeurs/drivers what ever you call them in your organization. This is one if not the most important position on the fireground. Sure, it can be as simple as pushing a button or pulling a lever but when things go wrong, and we know they can, do the individuals operating the pumps in your organization have the knowledge and skills to quickly avert disaster? With apparatus accidents occuring on almost a daily basis, initial and annual driving and pumps training is necessary.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mayfield on April 16, 2008 at 11:07am

I can't agree more. Outside of command to me the the "engineer" is the most important job on the fire scene. The guys on the nozzel get the glory but if not for the person on the pump they will not be effective in putting "the wet stuff on the red stuff." Besides just pumping you need to get your truck and crew to and from the scene safely. I see to many times when one is stressed more than the other. It is all important. Besides the engineer needs to know about driving, pump operations, troubleshoot on the fly, and know where every piece of equipment is on their truck and know that it is all working. Engineer's are the unsung hero of a fire fire scene.

Permalink Reply by Matt Hedges on April 25, 2008 at 4:53pm

Our district just recently began requiring Fire Apparatus Engineer certification as the minimum requirement for new pump operators. I am one of the first to be signed off in through certification vs. in house training. Many of our operators already have FAE and annually we have to complete a drivers course and road course on every class of vehicle we are allowed to drive (engine, tender, truck).

Permalink Reply by Dennis E Sampson on May 30, 2008 at 1:08am

Hey Joel,

This is what our company members have to do to be a pump operator/driver on our apparatus.( with manual gates) see operator/second asst eng. and the evaluation form for each time on the road(condensed to our requirements ) All courses are required before entering the position. They also must attend and operate at the MCFA FF 1 putting it all together live burn with 3 Engines, 2 trucks in operation, twice. This is a live structure fire scenero in a 2 story masonary burn building. This builds confidence and reasures their capabilities for the real deal.

Hope this helps!

STAFE SAFE !! Dennis

Attachments:

• Minimum_requirements_for_the_Company[2].doc, 38 KB
• driverevaluation.pdf, 42 KB

Permalink Reply by Brandon Erbe on June 2, 2008 at 4:56pm

This is what happens when the guys that ride the rigs don't get a say in how the rig will be built. Everybody has a better idea and our rig has to be better and fancier than our neighbors

Permalink Reply by Tom Londo on June 23, 2008 at 5:03pm

Amen brother. It seems that in our area there is so much of the "My truck is better than your truck" that they have stopped being functional. We have had our newest engine for about a year now and it is the first in our district to have the electronic pump panel. The largest concern that our personel have about the engine is that when it does malfunction, and we all know that it is "when" not "if", there is no way to override the system.

Also, the newer personel who are trained to operate the engine will be completely lost when it comes to pumping any other truck in our district. I believe it is very important to train our new drivers on a "knobs and levers engine" first so that they understand all of the concepts behind pumping before they rely on presets and the push of a button. I truly believe that the electronic pump panel is dangerous and will get someone very hurt or worse.