Instilling aggressiveness

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Greg Wyant on September 30, 2011 at 12:23pm

Most of the Depts in my area are still fighting fire in the 70s mode .. 3in supply and fog attack even if they have 5in supply 9 times out of 10 they lay 3in.. Sad.. The state teaches aggressive fire attack but have yet to see very many bring it home....

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on September 30, 2011 at 1:41pm

Well that’s most definitely a problem Greg. Not what I was thinking but sure is something that needs addressed. We still utilize 3’’ supply line due to our minimal budget but we understand that its very under par for todays fires. However I am glad that your academy teaches aggressive firefighting tactics and not a general fear of our job. That seems that it is becoming more dangerous than keeping the old school. To much indecisiveness gets firemen hurt for sure. Thanks for the comment Greg.

Keep the faith

Dan  

Permalink Reply by Ben Fleagle on September 30, 2011 at 8:11pm

Ok, Brother Dan, I'll bite!  

I teach our fire academy as you know already.  I am allowed to teach aggressive actions, based on information gathered by situational awareness (for lack of a better term) and through each individual size up.  Size up is an action required by all personnel on the crew, not just the officer.  I too believe we can be aggressive and train with an aggressive mindset, but it is a mistake to teach it blindly.  We have to teach "WHEN" to be aggressive, and when to back off. 

Firefighters are given to group mentallity.  We are much like a pack of dogs going for good meat left out within our grasp.  When we behave that way, we expose ourselves to excessive risk versus the gain that can be achieved.  We and the people we are to protect are better served if we train our people to be self-disciplined, forward thinking and aggressive in tactics when the tactics are justified.  Sort of a "Go/No Go" thought process.  You might say these are the traits of a good fire officer, but a great many officers in the fire service across the country are very young, and have little experience.  The "FEAR" mentallity you mention is just the swing of the pendulum.  Well meaning instructors and officers see what is happening and the most effective way in their mind to prevent it from hitting their department is to adopt a less aggressive approach or by directly micro-managing the scene, unfortunatly, this doesn't always meet the needs of the incident or the needs of the community.  "Don't worry, its insured!" is contrary to the reason we exist.  We are meant to keep costs down.  On the other hand, getting your people killed for vacant property cannot be justified either.  The answer as always, lies in a well balanced approach, being aggressive at the right time, for the right reasons.  Holding back at the right time, because it just makes good sound sense to protect your people.

Additionally, the changes is the fire environment are not going to give us ANY margin for mistakes.  Aggressive tactics without awareness of the potential consequences will be fatal consistently as is being shown across the country.  Failure to recognize basement fires, excessive fire load in cieling areas, failure to perform a 360 size up, failure to have water on the fire as soon as possible, failure to recognise the need for coordinated ventilation are all mistakes we are making because we are moving so fast, and with such aggressive attitudes that we are not seeing what is in front of us.  The "New Normal" in fire behavior is the governing factor.  Given the nature of the modern residential structure, fire officers must think through their actions based on the specific fire they are dealing with, not "well, we've always done it this way".

 

I'm just another Joe.  But that is how I see it. 

Permalink Reply by Ben Fleagle on October 5, 2011 at 2:13pm

Excellent point Trevor, I have to agree with you about teaching aggressiveness through experience.  I don't believe ANYTHING can be taught adequately in an academy setting other than the basics of life in the firehouse and the fireground.  I should have qualified my statement better.  When I stated "aggressive actions" I was pointing out that we teach the skills and mindset required to perform in an aggressive manner, should you be placed in a position to do so.  For example, sound vertical ventilation practices even though many departments will not put their people on the roof.  Another simple example would be a single man 28' ladder throw, with appropriate tools on hand.  In the skill sheets for FF 1?  No, but taught to impart some reality, once basics have been accomplished. 

 

Whether the teaching is done in the academy or in the firehouse is not my point, the mindset for it can begin in the academy.  Teaching the recruits to blindly follow policy or curricullum is setting them up to fail.  A good example would be the way many firefighters on the West Coast were taught to perform search with a hose line.  The book says keep in contact with the wall and each other at all times.  It shows a picture of two guys hugging the wall and dragging each other around by the pant leg, while wrestling a charged hoseline through every one of the four corners of the room.  Is that how it is really done?  No, not by veteran firemen who have learned the value and methods to move quicker and more efficiently, but when we take your point about fewer experienced "wise" veterans and combine it with the lack of mental prep to look beyond the book, you get a less aggressive or even worse, misinformed mindset.  I'm not sure which is worse.

 

I hope that clears up my thoughts a bit. 

Trevor Ashe said:

Can true aggressiveness be taught in the academy?  I am not so sure...not to get all philosophical on you.....

 

I believe that aggressiveness comes through experience.  Because you need to be able to hold yourself in check in order to be aggressive...restraint is what draws the line between aggressiveness and recklessness.  I don't think that is something that can be learned fully at the academy.

 

So, to get to your point of the fire service becoming less aggressive...

 

In my neck of the woods (rural Vermont), there is a very big shift in the demographics of the members and officers in my department and the departments around us.  The old, battle hardened, wise, firefighter and officer of 10 years ago (I can only speak to this time frame as I have 10 years in so far) is becoming a minority.  I would say that 60-70 percent of my department and the departments around us are made up of people with 10 years or less in the fire service.  There are less and less veteran members to pass along the aggressive mindset while still being able to teach restraint.

 

I think that is a large part in why we are seeing the shift in aggressivness.  Is it true that academys are focusing more on safety than aggressive tactics?  Yes.  And I think that is necessary.  I strongly believe that members need to learn respect and fear for fire before they can learn how to tame it aggressively. 

 

If you aint a little scared, get the f*** off the truck because you're going to get yourself, or worse, your partner, killed...

 

Just what I think.

Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on October 6, 2011 at 10:52am

Very good points, I believe 100% that we can only learn true fire attack and behavior through on the job training. I guess what I am getting at is more of what Ben was saying, basically the groundwork for an aggressive attitude towards doing work.  The biggest point that I was addressing through this is basically the unwillingness to make interior attacks and so on. I do appreciate the comments and opinions of everyone though.

 

Do work!

Dan