Where firefighters come to talk training
Training for VES
How many of you do VES?
How many of you and your organizations routinely perform Vent, Enter and Search Operations?
When discussing this tactic in some circles there is great debate. In fact, I have heard outright intolerance for VES.
It boils down to training and experience. Believe it or not, I have had firefighters actually have to ask what the acronym meant. Obviously, they don’t perform it.
It certainly has it’s place and is something that can be incorporated into the Outside Vent position. Especially in jurisdictions that don’t have dedicated Engines and Trucks, this position is even more critical. In these areas, one fire you may be performing engine company operations while the same day at a different fire you may be the truck company based on the order of your arrival.
I am curious what your policies are and what your training is for this position?
How does your department run in terms of companies and assignments?
Share what you do and how you operate so that we can all learn new ideas and methods to keep us safe.
Take care and train hard and smart.
Views: 886
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on
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With only having 1-2 hours for my guys at the academy, I would not send them over the sill. The is a tool which needs to be repetively trained upon and is not in my part of the world. I have had more training than my crew, so if the opportunity is there, I would go over the sill, but it would be a weighed out decision.
Stay Safe Train to Survive!
Jeff -
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Permalink Reply by Nick Morgan on
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Unfortunately, this is a tactic that is neither taught nor practiced in my department, though a few rare individuals who know about it would use it if necessary. I believe it is definitely a basic skill that ANY fire department should learn and practice, but especially those of us in urban and sub-urban fire departments.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Rice on
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As of now my vol. department does not practice or have much knowledge of VES. We are currently in the process of rewriting our fireground SOGs and I plan on incorporating VES into them. We will first have to train long and hard on it to ovoid any unneeded issues or injuries. The probability of our department using it is very slim due to our rural setting, however not out out the question. This is darn near a perfect forum for what I'm trying to do with VES right now. Thanks
Be Safe,
Dan -
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We all need to train on this tool like any other we have in our toolbox, failure to do so is a recipe for a really bad day!
Think, Train, then Think some more! Be Safe!
Jeff -
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Dan, VES is a great tool, as long as the Officer reads the building construction, smoke/fire conditions and all that goes with it. When training on this, use your hook to check the ceiling as well as the floor! If the fire drops down behind you, shutting the door, well just do much good now does it?
Be Safe Brother, Train and use Common Sense!
Jeff -
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Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on
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-Jason, VES is an incredible technique that I use, teach and recommend. Yes it is very dangerous but, properly applied during the correct circumstances, High and Urgent Rescue Profiles, it produces incredible results; the highest percentage of live victim rescues.
-VES is not an every day, garden variety search technique. VES is intended for application under very narrow parameters. Within those parameters it works very well.
-In my department VES is a technique that firefighters are introduced to in the Academy Basic Training phase. VES training was one of the annual monthly company studies sent out this year by the department on dvd to all stations.
-VES is implemented as directed by the IC, or as directed by the company officer or VES can be initiated by a firefighter provided he makes radio traffic advising of his actions. Self initiation of VES, though allowed and even encouraged (providing it is necessary), must be explained and the actions defendable by the firefighter in order to discourage freelancing. Seems contradictory but it does make sense and, this really is the nature of VES; an urgent need that is instantly recognized and immediately addressed.
-VES is performed off of any stable work platform; the ground, portable ladder, aerial, tower, roof, etc... Firefighters performing VES should never work alone but, this is not always possible or practical. Firefighters performing VES should be equipped with a BailOut System/Gear and a portable radio.
-As to operations, a basic first alarm/structure fire assignment is 3 engines, 2 ladders, 2 batt chiefs, 2 rescue /ambulances, 1 heavy rescue and 1 squad co. In larger structures, multiple occupancy dwellings, high hazards like hotels or nursing homes or high rises we run 5 engines, 4 ladders, 3 rescue/ambulances, 1 heavy rescue, 3 batt chiefs and 2 squad co. Multiple alarms add 3 engines and 2 ladders per alarm. All apparatus has four firefighters assigned. -
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Jeff, as someone that performs VES regularly I would recommend the Halligan as the better tool for the VES firefighter as it is more "user friendly" and less cumbersome.
Jeff Schwering said:Dan, VES is a great tool, as long as the Officer reads the building construction, smoke/fire conditions and all that goes with it. When training on this, use your hook to check the ceiling as well as the floor! If the fire drops down behind you, shutting the door, well just do much good now does it?
Be Safe Brother, Train and use Common Sense!
Jeff -
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-Jason, strictly speaking about VES in regard to the photo above, I would recommend that the window be COMPLETELY removed. Not doing so is improper and unsafe.
-The intent of VES is to make a rescue. Trying to manhandle a victim through the smaller opening is entirely to slow and unsafe for all involved.
-The additional intent of the technique is to simultaneously vent the environment to create tenability for the victim and the rescuer and to facilitation an aggressive search and possible rescue. This is part and parcel with the total understanding of what VES really is and when it is implemented.
-Far to many firefighters have been photographed entering windows in this incorrectly depicted manner above. If it is important enough t enter the window than it is essential to do so correctly and safely.
-VES = taking the entire window out!! -
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Brick, you hit on a couple of good points. The window needs to be clear and I personally prefer a halligan as well. I've seen this taught with a 4' hook, I wasn't teachin it Bro. Regardless, of the tool, poke that ceiling, the new construction that I'm seeing, can really jam us up quick. I like to know before I go, I guess! Just my 2 cents.
Be Safe!
Jeff -
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