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I know they aren't that new, but since the change, I've run into lots of other rescuers that have no idea that there were changes to some of the nailing patterns. And when I try to explain the reasons that I was told they were changed, they look at me like I'm on acid. I had the same problem with introducing the double t-spot shores. There needs to be a better way for people that might not be on USAR teams to get these updates. John, your book is a great source for info, but you wrote it before these changes, maybe its time for a second edition (LOL). I'm sure Sean is going to teach the new stuff out in Indy, but we need a way to get the word out to the whole rescue community, anyone have any ideas?

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I'M in the process of writing an article for the magazine identifying the changes made. most of them were made for speed and in the cleats as we tested the rakers we just found that you do not need that many nails to hold the raker in place. I don''t know why you would have a problem introducing the double t its in the manuals....... The real trouble is many fireman are just resistent to any change.............

John
John,

Your right on that resistance to change, that's what I meant on the double t's. I'm sure the article will get the word out. See you out in Indy at the Cladagh.

Art
Just a quick note to remind everyone that if using air nailers the cleats should still have 17 nails due to the thinner guage.
you can do that if you wish, however, the coating on the nails holds them tighter into the lumber. this basically makes them about the same. During the test their was no difference in the holding power... But since they do not split the cleat as frequently you can by all means add the extra if you like....
John what is the maximum out of plumb a wall can be and still use raker shores? Has this been dropped to 5%?
there is no one number,,,, it will depend on the type of wall.................... I don't know where you came up with that 5% number. a tilt up construction wall will vary greatly from a brick wall or a wood frame wall. some walls that are out of plumb far greater that 5 % may need a shore that is half raker half slope floor shore.... the bottom line is if the wall is leaning and has to be shore, it make take some thought on which type to use. generally for every degee out of plumb yoyu are supporting 10 % of the weight of the wall in question,, again that is strictly a rule of thumb. many variables come into play,, such as amount of damage, height of wall, type of construction etc........
This came from our engineer. I find it very conservative depending on the type of wall and the weight of the structure.
i do not know what your engineer is thinking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, with so many different types of walls no one number can be right or wrong. i have shored walls upwards of 40% out of plumb, wood frame that were still attached, used a cross between a raker and slope floor shore. Masonry walls generally do not get much more than 10% to 15% out of plumb before they fail and just come down. Of course the big question is what is the wall holding? the raker shores we tested, all 4x4 have yet to fail the anchor is the first to go generally and we have tested them to 25,000 lbs of pressure for one pair. and they still were holding,
I thought that it was usually the cleat that blew out first. We will be able to do some testing as our raker breaker is supposed to be under construction soon.
In the testing we have done with the army corp of engineers, the anchors would always go first, their breaker only goes up to 25,000 lbs pressurizing two rakers we have yet to fail any. when i remove 6 nails out of the bottom cleat then the cleat will fail, an by the nails slipping out. we did put in more substantial anchors so they could not move, but still were unable to fail the rakers without pulling nails. thats the main reason we went with the 14 nails instead of the 17, you just don't need them and the more nails the better chance of splitting the cleat.
Hey John,

We have gone to pneumatic palm nailer in each of our carpenters belts and have had good success with single and duplex nails of several different sizes in testing and training. Have you had any experiences to the contrary

Thanks...BE SAFE!!!
Scott
John I talked to our engineer and his concern was withprebuilding a square raker and then raking it out of square placing stress on the conection between the sole plate and the wall plate.

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