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We have been using 15/16 solid stream nozzles for a number of years, without any issues involving lines kinking. The PDP of 135-140 PSI. gives us 50 at the nozzle, for a very sufficient stream. With the recent purchase of a new engine, we flow tested all of the discharges and calculated the needed PDP to maintain flows with our existing equipment. Using our existing Ponn 1 3/4 hose, the PDP was slightly higher as the lines were positioned in crosslays rather than the rear hosebed. This worked fine until the new Angus Premier hose was purchased and loaded on the new pumper. Now it seems that kinking has become a problem. We have tried increasing the PDP, but it does not seem to help. The nozzle reaction is unmanagable, and not practical for smooth bore use. Has anyone else encountered this problem with Angus hose or any hose, and what steps did you take to correct it?

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Replies to This Discussion

Captain Rigney
Yes!!! Although we do not use Angus, we use Niedner, we have horrible kinking problems. We also use the 15/16th SB and our hose is 1.75" fabric jacket. Our PDP is 156 psi (200' mid-mount cross lay). We also have not been able to solve the problem, increases or decreases in PDP have no affect. I believe that in the manufacturers/industries quest to make handlines easier to advance, they have created this unintended side-effect. Our only "solution" has been a better effort to lay the hose out for advancement and to have the engineer and/or last man on the line watch for the kinks and get them out.
Joe,
it's interesting that you mentioned the Niedner hose. A neighboring Dept. had recently switched from Niedner to the Angus. I talked to a friend of mine there, and he told me that they had experienced trouble with the hose holding up. He spoke highly of the Angus, but never mentioned any problems with kinking. They also use smooth bore, and breakapart nozzles. The bad thing is that our lines are kinking right behind the nozzle, and where the backup man is holding. One of our Lt.s suggested using a section of the Ponn hose at the nozzle, and Angus for the remaining 150'. I'll let you know what happens! Thanks.

Joe Campbell said:
Captain Rigney
Yes!!! Although we do not use Angus, we use Niedner, we have horrible kinking problems. We also use the 15/16th SB and our hose is 1.75" fabric jacket. Our PDP is 156 psi (200' mid-mount cross lay). We also have not been able to solve the problem, increases or decreases in PDP have no affect. I believe that in the manufacturers/industries quest to make handlines easier to advance, they have created this unintended side-effect. Our only "solution" has been a better effort to lay the hose out for advancement and to have the engineer and/or last man on the line watch for the kinks and get them out.
Capt.,

We just evaluated and bought 1.75" hose for the purpose of flowing the 15/16" tip. Kinking was a testing factor and was greatly different amongst the 5-6 hose brand/models we tested. In the end we switched back from Ponn Conquest to Ponn Supreme, which was able to withstand kinks very well.

Our evaluation tested actual friction loss, fold/roll ease and kink resistance. The kink test we did by making a loop and decreasing the diameter until it kinked, the smallest full loop was deemed best. All hose was tested at 180 gpm flowing.
Adam,
Thanks for the reply. We still have about 30 sections of the Ponn Supreme hose, so if replacing the nozzle section doesn't work, it's back to the old standby. I will say that the Angus 2 1/2" seems to work well so far. Another large neighboring dept. recently switched from Ponn to High Combat II because of kinking issues, but they are using low pressure fog nozzles, with low PDPs. If you have any of the data from your test results, I would like to see the numbers for future reference. Thanks!

Adam Miceli said:
Capt.,

We just evaluated and bought 1.75" hose for the purpose of flowing the 15/16" tip. Kinking was a testing factor and was greatly different amongst the 5-6 hose brand/models we tested. In the end we switched back from Ponn Conquest to Ponn Supreme, which was able to withstand kinks very well.

Our evaluation tested actual friction loss, fold/roll ease and kink resistance. The kink test we did by making a loop and decreasing the diameter until it kinked, the smallest full loop was deemed best. All hose was tested at 180 gpm flowing.
If staffing allows, you may want to consider using engine personnel to check for and fix kinks. Many time we use the back up or door guy for this, even with min. staffing it doesnt take much! Fyi we use 200' 1 3/4" with a 15/16ths tip.
John Rigney said:
Adam,
Thanks for the reply. We still have about 30 sections of the Ponn Supreme hose, so if replacing the nozzle section doesn't work, it's back to the old standby. I will say that the Angus 2 1/2" seems to work well so far. Another large neighboring dept. recently switched from Ponn to High Combat II because of kinking issues, but they are using low pressure fog nozzles, with low PDPs. If you have any of the data from your test results, I would like to see the numbers for future reference. Thanks!


Here's what I have left from our testing:
ATI Jafline: FL=30/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=72"
Aquaflow Plus: FL=25/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=48"
Key Lite: FL=40/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=48"
Dura Pak: FL=25/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=30"
Ponn Supreme: FL=30/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=24"

Our testing was slightly less than perfect as we could only get 50 foot sections of each hose for trial purposes, thus the FL is at 50, which when all tested the same way allowed us to rank them in order, while not getting the exact FL at 100 ft. for the standard EP formula. The same engine and discharge was used in each case, and the numbers came from the pitot gauge and were validated by the onboard flow meter. I can't find my earlier results for the Ponn Conquest, but we had some issues with kinking and our ability to use it in our donut roll preconnects, so given the price we opted to look for a better match at a better price.
Thanks for the info Chief, I have also contacted Snap-Tite for the technical specs on the Ponn Supreme.

Adam Miceli said:
John Rigney said:
Adam,
Thanks for the reply. We still have about 30 sections of the Ponn Supreme hose, so if replacing the nozzle section doesn't work, it's back to the old standby. I will say that the Angus 2 1/2" seems to work well so far. Another large neighboring dept. recently switched from Ponn to High Combat II because of kinking issues, but they are using low pressure fog nozzles, with low PDPs. If you have any of the data from your test results, I would like to see the numbers for future reference. Thanks!


Here's what I have left from our testing:
ATI Jafline: FL=30/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=72"
Aquaflow Plus: FL=25/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=48"
Key Lite: FL=40/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=48"
Dura Pak: FL=25/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=30"
Ponn Supreme: FL=30/50' @ 180 Kink diameter @180=24"

Our testing was slightly less than perfect as we could only get 50 foot sections of each hose for trial purposes, thus the FL is at 50, which when all tested the same way allowed us to rank them in order, while not getting the exact FL at 100 ft. for the standard EP formula. The same engine and discharge was used in each case, and the numbers came from the pitot gauge and were validated by the onboard flow meter. I can't find my earlier results for the Ponn Conquest, but we had some issues with kinking and our ability to use it in our donut roll preconnects, so given the price we opted to look for a better match at a better price.

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