welcome to all youse people out there from NJ

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on March 12, 2008 at 1:31pm

Nice to meet you Anthony. Now for tactics!
Here is my dilemma - we respond and work with between 4 and 10 or so on the first alarm, in a town with 2 colleges, business districts, 3 residential high rises 7 stories or more, factories, and other such hazard sites. We have an ongoing discussion "should the OIC of the crew mask up and enter with the men or take the IC position outside"?

OK, now I know all about Command, accountability, safety, and the like. However, others stick with the "First in, Last out" theory and assign the IC to the next incoming officer (which can be a bit of a delay). I can honestly say that our officers make this call day-in-day-out with great skill. Their first thought is toward the well-being of the men he is responsible for, and we have had no close calls or quiet mumbling about bad decisions (as far as I know).

I would really like to know what you folks think.

Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on March 13, 2008 at 1:07pm

not sure who is eventally the IC. Is there a Chief on the response? If not, then something should be worked out by SOP
Where i work in North Hudson and in most dept's in the area, if a Comp Off is 1st on scene, he establishes command and goes right to work, utilizing a mobile command. Whether he is in the invesdtigative mode or stretching a line makes no difference. He does, however, have the option of giving command to a more senior officer provided that officer is on scne (this is rarely done)
this is because we have specific initial scene assignment sops and he is best supervising the initial interior operaiton, so his command is a mobile one. We have a luxury because the BC is usually not too far behind and will assume command and take a stationary position in the street. If it is a worker, the DC will respond, get a briefing and assume command. The BC then usually becomes the intierior division commander and goes inside to supervise there
The concern arises where no chief officer responds and a "working" officer who responds with a company will be in command for an extended period of time. Does he stay in the street or go with his company? This must be decided on a local level but must be in place and enforced so confusion and command battles are not the result
There is no real right or wrong way of doing this provided that someone remains at the CP at some point. It does not have to be the first company officer, but it must be one of the initial arriving CO's if no Chief is responding. To that end, a mechanism shoud be in place that directs that policy, whether it be the 1st officer on scene or the senior officer. Personally, i think company officers should be with thier company and proper command supervision should be the responsibility of an officer not asigned to a company. It is best as a Chief, but does not necessarily have to be one
That's just my slant on it
The pint to make is that someone better be in command at all times and the more transfers you make, the more confusing (and chaotic) it may get
stay safe
aa

Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on March 13, 2008 at 7:03pm

I agree, and thanks for the input. Just to clear things up a bit, we have a very flat structure and run from 1 station. Our Chief is directly above the shift Captain and is not at all fires. When he is, he usually does not take command, but assists the initial IC instead. So, in a nutshell, the initial IC is the man (or woman) who runs the show. We also have a LT on each shift, and he gets assigned by the OIC where needed. To be honest, we have probably had every combination of officer assignments you can think of, which is the crux of my problem. The good news is I think we have some good officers, but the method of command structure can vary from one fire to the next. Like any other department, we all have our opinions and have tended to "not open that can of worms" to sort this out.
Sometimes you don't ask the question for fear of not liking the answer.

Permalink Reply by Art Bloomer on March 14, 2008 at 9:39pm

Okay Chief,

I need all of the right answers for the upcoming oral portion of the captains test (LOL). As I type this, I just put down your book. I've been sleeping with it under my pillow. See ya in Indy.

Art

Permalink Reply by Anthony Avillo on March 15, 2008 at 1:06pm

good luck
hope it helps
someone told me they put it in a blender and drank it -- it was bland
still another smoked it in a bong