Smoothbore Vs Fog/Automatic for Standpipes

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on December 27, 2008 at 9:23pm

Nick
I am very partial to the Akrons, not that my department uses them, but a few collegues and myself did side by side comparisons using digital flow meters, inline gauges and scales. We all agreed that the 1400 series was the best smoothbore nozzle out there. We liked other companie's combos, like you will not beat TFT for a fog nozzle. So we feel we were not influenced, and we came up with our own conclusions. As far as why my FD does not use them? Politics and who the powers that be are friends with!

If you get the Akrons, try them at 40 PSI nozzle pressure instead of 50 PSI. It flows about 175 GPM, and only about 60 lbs nozzle reaction.
Some guys like adding stream shapers, I think the 1400s don't need them. My opinion only.

Nick Weiland said:

Yes sir, it is. Do you think 1 3/8 is better than 1" orfice for a 1 3/4 line, w/ 15/16 tip? Or do you think it will make any difference?

Permalink Reply by L. Chapel on December 29, 2008 at 7:45am

Here are two pics of 30 lbs of debris that was reported to have been removed from a standpipe in Atlanta a few years ago.

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on December 29, 2008 at 8:46am

Les
Holy Crap! I don't think any nozzle would have handled that stuff. Out of curiosity, what size riser was that? Was the integrety of the riser in question, meaning was the pipe too thin to hold pressure after all the turberculine was removed? Was it a dry system or a wet system? Good pictures. Thanks
Russ

Permalink Reply by Nick Weiland on December 29, 2008 at 11:10am

Thanks Russ! Very good information. Sorry to hear you’re unable to use them. Mine have not come in yet, but only 1 will be on a hand line, the others for the hi rise packs. But if you knew what I was working with you would understand what a significant step we have overcome, just in getting 1 on a pre-connect.
I plan to fully test and train w/ these when they do arrive. Do you have any recommendations on good training/technique with the s/b nozzle?

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on December 29, 2008 at 3:48pm

Nick
You just can't place them in service without training. The biggest thing is kinks. If you don't really put the emphasis on chasing kinks, they will kill you as you now have a low pressure hoseline. Proper hoseline handling, and holding have to be reinforced. Check out last months FE for a article by Ray Mac that shows some really good photos. Also, now that you have them, there is really no neccessity to "get in" with the fire, as the stream reach can do it for you, deflecting it on door jambs, hallway walls etc. That is a big bonus. Just get the Brothers out and train with them. Some are going to complain because the hoseline has a tendancy to kink right at the nozzle FF's hip. Again proper hoseline management with no pistol grips will avoid this. Once they get some jobs under thier belt, they will like it. If you have digital flow meters, set them up so the pump operators can find their proper friction losses. Alson remind everyone they are limited to 300 feet, no more of 1 3/4" hose (6 lengths). Try pumping them at 15 psi per length, 30 per 100 Ft, and try 40 psi nozzle pressure. If that NP confuses every one, then use the 50 psi. You will be flowing about 175 and 195 GPM respectively. Be safe
Russ

Nick Weiland said:

Thanks Russ! Very good information. Sorry to hear you’re unable to use them. Mine have not come in yet, but only 1 will be on a hand line, the others for the hi rise packs. But if you knew what I was working with you would understand what a significant step we have overcome, just in getting 1 on a pre-connect.
I plan to fully test and train w/ these when they do arrive. Do you have any recommendations on good training/technique with the s/b nozzle?

Permalink Reply by L. Chapel on December 31, 2008 at 7:53am

I got these as hand me down second hand pictures from a Fire Protection Engineer that was going to college in Oklahoma. I don't know any specifics since they were attached in an e-mail years ago and not the subject of the e-mail.

We can only guess how many of the bigger chunks might break up into smaller ones when submersed in turbulent water.

I don't know the size of the riser, age of the system or thickness of the pipe. I'll venture to guess this is a wet system.

In any event we had the opportunity to high-rise practice and charge our attackline in a new office building that was only one year old. When the SPO operator flushed the outlet prior to hooking up, there was a lot of black water that came out. No chunks but imagine those systems 30, 40, 50 years old or more. This was one of the reasons we replaced all our high-rise hose packs with 2.5” and 1 1/8” smoothbore nozzles.

But heck I'm Johnny-Come-Lately on that discussion.

Russ Chapman said:

Les
Holy Crap! I don't think any nozzle would have handled that stuff. Out of curiosity, what size riser was that? Was the integrety of the riser in question, meaning was the pipe too thin to hold pressure after all the turberculine was removed? Was it a dry system or a wet system? Good pictures. Thanks
Russ

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