Accountability

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by J. Scott Loftis on March 13, 2008 at 1:16pm

Mr. Lemme,

I have just modified the passport accountability program to fit our department. I have all of the information that you need, if you are interested. Just let me know.
EGH-PFB

Permalink Reply by Mark Lafountain on March 13, 2008 at 10:12pm

Mr. Lemme,

In our County, we really do not have a great grasp on the Accountability System either. Some Departments have a great system that works for them, and some haven't even begun the process. Some Departments do the two tag system as your Department does. My Department has a two tag system with the Firefighter's picture on it (in case they go mutual aid). Everyone has at least one tag. One of the tags is supposed to go to the Chief, Scene Truck, or a Staging Officer so you are accounted for on the scene. It doesn't matter if you come on an Engine or in POV...you are supposed to have a tag to be on scene. For those who are Interior Firefighters, they have a 2nd tag that is supposed to be left with the Officer at the entry point of the building.

We have had this in place for a little over two years and have yet to see it used as it was designed. It has good merit, but has no enforcement. It is only going to take one time where someone cannot be accounted for before it is enforced. I'm still trying to think if there is a better way.

Another Department in our County has an electronic Accountability system that is integrated with the SCBA. I'm not sure how it works, or how well it works.

That's all I can think of...if anything else rises from the depths of the dust storm in my head, I'll run it by you!

Permalink Reply by Mike Donovan on March 14, 2008 at 9:44am

While I believe that accountability systems such as tags and electronic check in have their place on the fireground, these systems still fall short of what true accountability is. My department also utilizes a tag system, but this system will never be able to tell anybody where I am on the fireground or what I am doing. True accountability at the tactic level is the responsibilty of the company officer, regardless if they are operating on the interior or exterior. Face to face and disciplined radio communications provide a better system of real time accountability. In my opinion the reliability of any accountability system has to answer three questions; Who...radio call sign, company designation or members name, Where........sector, division, exposure, floor, What..........task, assignment or tactic. Many of the current accountability systems employed today answer one question.....Where....meaning the incident address.

Permalink Reply by Chris Lafountain on March 14, 2008 at 9:11pm

Mike,
That is a very good explantion of accountaibility, not as a marker, but as a responsibility. I came from a department that had 2 tags, one was handed to the officer at the door. The other stayed on the firefighter's gear the entire time. They were stamped aluminum. A toe tag? It didn't inspire confidence but at least they used it. My current department is the same as Mark spoke of above. Neither systems were well designed and yet thats whan most departments around here have, if anything. In the course of some recent training though I have heard more and more that accountability lies in each firefighter and each officer knowing whats going on around them, who is with them, and what they are doing. Being responsible for yourself and you brother firefighters is the best way to attain accountability. Sometimes that means training firefighters to oversee the actions of other firefighters, especially if you are short on officers. It definately requires a higher level of training and discipline.

Permalink Reply by Sunshine Lemme on March 16, 2008 at 6:48pm

Thanks for your input, it seems that you are just about where we are with the two-tags.
I also carry a second set of tags on my confined space gear, and it's never been deployed.

Sorry for the late response. I've been getting Certified FSI I this weekend. I've got to tell you that it was more stressful, and more rewarding, than any other fifty hours I've put in a classroom.

Permalink Reply by Sunshine Lemme on March 16, 2008 at 7:14pm

Mike, Chris, that's what I believe also. The current chief brought up the idea or an Accountability Officer, someone to track the personnel on the fireground, inside, topside, and outside. I think it might work, IF we can train that way. But I'm also sure that most other methods work IF we trained with that system. The biggest problem is that we haven't done 'that' before, it is difficult to change the way we do things. I don't want to have an LODD make us change.

One advantage of the chief's Accountability Officer is that he can double as Initial Rapid Intervention Officer. (We call for Mutual Aid for RIT.) His primary purpose is to track who is on what team, where they are, and how much air do they have. Who else is better informed to lead a RIT?

Permalink Reply by Mark Lafountain on March 17, 2008 at 1:05pm

I know what you mean with the FSI!!! Congratulations!!! It was definitely the most rewarding class...quite intense, very mentally abusive, definitely a feeling of accomplishment! I just finished and tested for Fire Officer II this weekend. After all of the hard work...it was a success.

People don't realize that they need to learn something outside of their Fire Departments once in a while so they can keep abreast of the new things. It also gives them another point of view!

Again, Congratulations!

Permalink Reply by Sunshine Lemme on March 17, 2008 at 4:06pm

Congratulations to you as well, the Fire Officer courses are rather lengthy and intense as well, I understand. You do have a geographical advantage on me though; there is no other department in the NY that is farther from the academy than Montauk! They had this one at the county academy, which had disadvantages but also advantages; all the candidates were from the county, and Butler, Malfi, and Endle couldn't go home!

Permalink Reply by Sandy Lasa on March 20, 2008 at 7:14pm

We've become gadget happy in the fire service. We have name tags, pictures, family trees carried on the rig to let us know who's riding. What ever happened to simplicity. Piece of paper with members working that shift on the rig if command needs it. Accountability starts with each member. You get assigned to complete a task, notify your boss when it's completed and if you changed locations. The boss, know where your company members are operating at all times. Sometimes we're our own worse enemy. Keep it simple

Permalink Reply by Sunshine Lemme on March 21, 2008 at 10:41am

A piece of paper will work when you know who is on the rig, and everybody on that rig stays together. That doesn't happen too often in the volunteer community. Even though they are truckies, I prefer to have the search team on the first vehicle out, which is supposed to be an engine. There are times that the truck doesn't have a driver for awhile, but we still need truckies on the fireground. Then, of course, many of us arrive from a distance (we've got a very large district with one firehouse), so we end up using a POV to get there.

You have a point about being "gadget happy", to which I plea guilty as charged. I love the gadgets, and want at least one of each. I have found, though, that even those that work best get incorporated into the work life of the unit only if they have a champion. I pick my gadgets carefully, and champion those that make the job better , faster, or safer. Right now I'm trying to get at least one TIC on each engine and truck, so that the primary search and RIT can each have one.

"You get assigned to complete a task, notify your boss when it's completed and if you changed locations." That would solve a lot of the problems, but it just doesn't always happen. My department needs to train on that, too, along with calling Maydays, tracking our personnel in and on the building, and having RIT available before entry.

Be safe!

Permalink Reply by bob simpson on March 30, 2008 at 7:11pm

Sandy I think you said the most important comment of the whole thread , ACCOUNTABILITY STARTS WITH EACH MEMBER , Radios for each interior firefighter only for emergency tranmissions.only the boss should be updating command. Seat assignments a good boss will know where you should be then. Kick a** RIT. and most importantly
TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING. Then we should all go home after the run

Permalink Reply by Sandy Lasa on March 30, 2008 at 8:04pm

Yeah Bob too much free lancing on the fire ground, we need to do a better job and there's where the accountability comes into play. Not only are you jeapordizing yourself but your also putting other members at risk (RIT) if something happens to you. We can't prevent everything, because sometimes we could be doing everything right and things can go terribly wrong. That's the fire service....Sunshine nothing wrong with some gadgets as long as you can operate them under the worse conditions. I see guys with all kinds of "gadgets" hanging off them. You ask them can they find and operate it under heavy smoke conditions and of course they say yes. I then ask have you ever practiced operating their little toy blindfolded. No...So if you've never trained on it then how do you know you'll be able to use under crappy conditions? I'm willing to bet that 99.9 % of these people won't be able to do it. It'sabout training, training, training. Not talking about it but actually practicing and honing your skills. I too, look for ways to make my life better and safer and for right now, I believe that training is the answer.

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