Leading By --------------Poor Example ?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eddie Buchanan on May 22, 2008 at 7:24am

Oh boy! I'll try not to soapbox this too much, but I think it's a supreme lack of discipline and/or complacency. I think it is ironic that instructors "claim" to be brothers and sisters, yet their own actions and behavior put other firefighters at risk. If you're an instructor, people will notice what you do. You are a role model, no matter if you asked to be or not. It's time for us as instructors to take responsibility and do the right thing. Wear the PPE. Buckle the seatbelt. No wait...sit your a** down and buckle the seatbelt. Yeah, yeah, I know...you have to get your SCBA on..right? Put it on when you get there! Why do you think we do those "done the SCBA in 60 seconds or less" drills!

Most are good guys and gals. Maybe they just forget. We forget a lot! Remember your responsibility and duty as an instructor and a brother or sister. Take care of each other...all of the time! The change towards reducing LODD's has to start somewhere. Let it start with us!

Ok...now I'll go to rehab.

Great question Dennis!

Eddie B

Permalink Reply by Dennis E Sampson on May 22, 2008 at 5:53pm

Eddie,

The reason I ask this question is I have seen it so many times and received feed back from firefighters I know as well as firefighters I do not at different academies make the statement, Why don't they have to--------? or The instructors don't wear it. We are not perfect by any means and that goes for all, incluiding myself. But if we as a core in the fire service can change some of our flaws, we can get the others to change theirs. All the gear does not have to be worn, just at the appropriate time. Thanks for the reply !

Stafe Safe !! Dennis

Permalink Reply by Tom Londo on May 22, 2008 at 8:52pm

I agree with all of the above. We too have this issue. We have a regional training facility and have many different depts. regularly, as well as instructors from all over. Sometimes, the issue is that different depts. train to different standards. For instance, there are depts. in our area that preach "on air when you step off the rig." Other depts. say "on air when ready to make entry." This type of discrepancy causes friction and talk in class that "these guys don't know what they are doing." or the infamous "We don't do it that way!" I agree that instructors should be safer than their students because they are responsible for their students. How can you help a student in trouble if you are less equipped to deal with the situation than they are? This is a rambling mess but you het my point.

Lead by (good) example

Tom

Permalink Reply by Drew Smith on May 30, 2008 at 8:11pm

I think you have to know who you are instructing. When I instruct or lead my own members I stress our SOPs/SOGs and howwe want it done. When I teach to a group of firefighters from several departments I try not to push SOPs and to focus on task performance and safety. For example, if the skill is hose line management, I try to get guys to understand what works and why and what does not work and I push this by doing this. On Tom's comment about being on air at a certain time I think an instructor needs to know why one department does it one way and why another does not. I'm not advocating one method over another when working with everal FDs, but using air when it is not needed leaves less air for when it is needed. HOWEVER, some departments might want people to mask up when there is less stress involved rather than on the from steps with fire blowing, hearts racing an then someone forgets a hood or does not do a seal check. We can train our members only so much but we cannot provide incident experience other that when some calls 9-1-1.

Permalink Reply by Mark Lafountain on June 22, 2008 at 11:22pm

I also believe that complacency is a reason. I have seen Instructors who are from the old schools who have "done it all" and believe more in "Do what I say, not what I do!" It is hard to believe that the students will do what we say, and not what we do! We stand in front of the classroom and preach "SAFETY! SAFETY! SAFETY!" and then relapse into the bad habits we learned as young pups! Remember to lead by example!

The next problems we run into are the Fire Chiefs / leaders who do not wear their full gear or follow the safety precautions at calls either because they are too macho, too lazy, their gear doesn't fit (because they ate too many twinkies) or think they are super heroes! When we Instructors preach to the new Firefighters about the need for PPE, and they see their Fire Chiefs / leaders not wearing it, what makes them want to follow what you (the Instructor) say after they get out of your class? Their Chief doesn't do it, so they won't either. I find it to be a joke when a Chief can ream out a Firefighter for not wearing their full turn-out gear when they sometimes don't wear any at all!

Even if I am a faithful follower of the Safety protocols, I am still scared that one of my students will not wear his/her gear at a call and will get seriously injured because they felt the peer pressure from the seasoned Firefighters in their Departments, (or jokes made by their leaders) by being singled out because they were following what I said. They may have been trained by me to be safe, but it is up to them (in most cases) to stand up for their wish for safety. Change is not easy, and not looked at in a favorable light by some leaders.

Make sure you (the Instructor) LEAD BY EXAMPLE ---> 1.) WEAR ALL OF YOUR GEAR! 2.) Like Eddie Buchanan said, "SIT YOUR A** DOWN AND BUCKLE YOUR SEATBELT" ALWAYS!!! 3.) FOLLOW THE PROTOCOLS / PROCEDURES!

We do forget once in a while! Let's all just keep in mind that we need to make sure we give everyone the tools needed to return home safely.

Stay safe out there!

Mark L.

Permalink Reply by Tim Zehnder on June 24, 2008 at 11:35pm

Dennis,
Great topic, I am with ya brother and the other thing is the trade mag's that are out there are forever putting a big fire pic on the front cover with a fellow firefighter not wearing his or her gear the right way. I would like to challenge these mag's to only print pictures with the equipment being used the right way. Eddie save me a spot at the rehab table.

Tim Z.
Stay Safe

Permalink Reply by Tom Londo on June 26, 2008 at 5:57pm

Dennis,

I understand where you are coming from with that. Just to play Devil's advocate though, I think we all have scenes where if you took one snapshot 9 times out of 10 you could find something wrong with the photo. Photo's are like text messages and emails. People will make of it what ever they think and do so without knowing the context of the message or in this case picture.

As much as we train, and I love training, when we respond to a situation we are reactive. This means adjusting on the go. Every scene presents different circumstances and we don't always get it right. It is also very difficult to fight complacency which ironicaly comes with training, the more comfortable guys are the more corners they tend to cut. I come from an aerial rescue backround training tree climbers and I see it every day with them and other tradesmen as well. I don't know if we will ever win that battle. Nature of the beast I guess.

As far as Protocols, I come from a small dept. but we host classes all year long. Our instructors try not to preach "Our Way". They more or less teach the classes ideas and tools to take back to their depts. It is kind of funny to see some of these instructors who may not wear their PPE correctly day to day, yet in class they are dressed to the T. I agree that we need to do everything we can to protect and educate our students. Most of the time I am one of the students, and I appreciate the seasoned firefighters on this site who are looking out for young guys like me.

Stay safe
Londo

Permalink Reply by Rich Nappi on July 9, 2008 at 8:21am

Obviuosly it is easier if you are training your own department, as you know:

A) The singular S.O.P./S.O.G.'s ,
and
B) Who the big voilators are going to be.

When teaching 'mixed' classes I always like to take a second to ask the member's department policies to point out that there are diferences in methods. It helps to explain to the students (especially young ones) that not only should you know your rules, but those of surrounding departments that may & and will be operating along side you at fire scenes.
The scene itself is not a place to say "Damn, I know my FF removal but this is a Drager & we only use Scott's".
This should not be allowed to 'hijack' the lesson at hand but to reinforce communication & amd cooperative drills to make sure we are as prepared as possible for when the bells go off.

Most instructors I work with are keenly aware of the younger students watching and do the right thing in terms of PPE at the drills. We also attempt to keep the departments 'senior' guys to follow it with a 'they do as you do' approach.

Some guys have just seen 'Backdraft' too many times and have to be 'that guy'. You always try to present the proper way to do it and hope they listen.

A sign at the FDNY fire academy says:

'Let no man's ghost come back to say "My Training Let Me Down"'.

That's a philosophy to LIVE with...

Stay safe and stay low...

Rich