Fire Engineering Training Community

Where firefighters come to talk training

Hi All,

 

Working on developing a response SOP for the flaring of LPG containers. We will be dealing with containers up to 100lb's. Anything bigger would require equipment we dont have. We have two torches liquid 700,000 btu and a gas 240,000 btu, 25' of hose and regulators that will allow purging of the entire tank.

 

One debate we have been having is if we should designate it as a hazardous goods call or just another run. We do not have a haz-mat team, however do respond to hazardous goods calls for assessment and containment.

 

I would like your thoughts and comments....and an sop or two!

Thanks

Views: 470

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I think that you are talking about Tech level stuff. At least under NFPA 472-6.6.4.1(3), I don't see flare off as a HazMat Ops tactic. The one thing that I remember from my Ops Instructor, Dr./Professor Culbertson "In Ops you try not to get the shmutz on you, in Tech, you expect to get the shmutz on you. Stay out of the shmutz!". If you get hold of your Regional HazMat team, they should have the SOP that you are looking for. I worry that if you are operating outside of the standard, you will be accepting a lot of liability if the hazard doesn't behave.
Yes the shmutz is bad. I should state the full time staff are trained to DG ops level.....we just dont have an organized Haz-mat team. We are currently working on Haz-Mat SOP's as well. LPG situations we would be dealing with are from trailer rollover or worksite incident. Anything biiger such as cargo transport on the hi-way is going to binocular ops, until the carriers haz team takes care of the situation.
We have dealt with leaky tanks for a number of years but recently decided that flaring would be better than letting it leak somewhere safe...ish! Situations we have come across are BBq fires were tank has flared and continues to leak, MVC with holiday trailer (leaking valve), 100lb LPG cylinder with fire damage etc... so nothing huge.
The only time I've ever gone to something of that size, we had to call the gas company. THey flared it of while we stood by. Big waste of our time, would have been much better if we could have done that when we arrived.
Plug it, off load it, and be done with it,don't to put your guys in this situation! Just my thoughts and my thoughts only! Your friend, Todd McKee
Thanks for your reply Todd, Curious about plugging the leak - what size container are you reffering too? What device or material are you using to plug a pressurized vessel?
Thanks

Dave
Hey Dave!

You may think this is crazy, but it truly works,you need a ladder patch and a wet towel.
Place the towel over the h*** and tighten down the ladder patch, the water will freeze and create a seal. The tighten ladder patch will help with the sealing under pressure (sometimes I will wrap the rubber part of the patch with the wet towel). The plugging method is almost the same method, you still use a ladder patch but it is a three holed ladder patch that has "T" handled plugs with screw tighteners. This is a VERY VERY short reply and it does take additional training to properly accomplish each task. However, in my opinion only I think this is much safer than flaring. I have done both methods with a leaking MC331 tank and have worked very well. Train on it let me know what you think! Your friend, Todd McKee


Dave Roe said:
Thanks for your reply Todd, Curious about plugging the leak - what size container are you reffering too? What device or material are you using to plug a pressurized vessel?
Thanks

Dave
Hi Todd,

Those are some pretty big tanks. We would have the transport company deal with those (transfer, flaring, shape charge). We are developing our SOP for the utility cylinder 20lb to 100lb. You do bring up a very valid point in training to cork the big tanks though - I will have to talk it over with the chief and see if that is something we want to entertain.

Do you have any training material on the patch?
Here's a slideshow I found online called Hazardous Materials Leak plugging Guide While alot of this is intended for the Tech level it is a pretty good guide and can probably be incorporated into some hazmat SOP's. It has good picture examples for training use and slides 17 and 18 show a ladder patch and of it in use on a large tanker.
Looks like Brad set you up with materials, if you go to www.indiansprings.com there is some information there for the patch as well. The wet towel method and the ladder patch is a lot easier to do on a 100lb tank than the MC331. The University I teach at stays away from flaring on those tanks. The only other suggestion I would have is to drive slow the leak with eventually stop! HA! Take Care! Todd Here is my number feel fre to call me 740 507 8802

Dave Roe said:
Hi Todd,

Those are some pretty big tanks. We would have the transport company deal with those (transfer, flaring, shape charge). We are developing our SOP for the utility cylinder 20lb to 100lb. You do bring up a very valid point in training to cork the big tanks though - I will have to talk it over with the chief and see if that is something we want to entertain.

Do you have any training material on the patch?
Excellent resources - thanks gentlemen

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Policy Page

PLEASE NOTE

The login above DOES NOT provide access to Fire Engineering magazine archives. Please go here for our archives.

CONTRIBUTORS NOTE

Our contributors' posts are not vetted by the Fire Engineering technical board, and reflect the views and opinions of the individual authors. Anyone is welcome to participate.

For vetted content, please go to www.fireengineering.com/issues.

Fire Engineering Editor in Chief Bobby Halton
We are excited to have you participate in our discussions and interactive forums. Before you begin posting, please take a moment to read our policy page. -- Bobby Halton

Be Alert for Spam
We actively monitor the community for spam, however some does slip through. Please use common sense and caution when clicking links. If you suspect you've been hit by spam, e-mail peter.prochilo@clarionevents.com.

FE Podcasts


Check out the most recent episode and schedule of
UPCOMING PODCASTS

© 2022   Created by fireeng.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service