Captain Joe Meyer, thank you for your input. Yes, we are a localized IAFF Union. I agree with you on your knowledge and that the officer can take mobile command. It seems that alot of companies due this anyways and has been done for years. When I ride out of class, thats what I do and that is what I was taught. Again, I just do not get this chase car deal at all, it is non-sense especially if you do not have the manning in the first place.
I will keep you posted with any other issues.
I have a couple of questions for you. Do you have another email I can email you? Let me know.
Thanks and be safe out there!!
Tim, I guess my first question would be is the goal to establish IC immediately for everything or is it based on the situation upon arrival? Because honestly, if a Lt. is planning on riding in the engine but planning on assuming IC on arrival, does it really matter what he's riding in? However, I agree with you that if your first in engine will be in fast attack mode, then it's preferable to have all of your manpower on the engine. We operate with a designated IC at station 1 and a company officer at station 2. In station 2's area, you are more likely to operate in fast attack knowing that the shift officer's is to arrive and assume command. Conversely, in station 1's area, the IC usually arrives first and the CO on the engine is the interior officer. It is an advantage, in that situation, to show up a little earlier than the remainder of the crew to get a good size-up and coordinate assignments as units arrive.
Now I'll throw our issue at you: Station 1 minimum manning is 7; 1 in the car, 3 in the engine, 2 in the truck, and 1 in the squad. Station 2 minimum manning is 4; 3 on the engine and 1 in the squad (plus a 4-man truck responding AMA). Am I even qualified to judge your response? I can't imagine that it's more efficient to have more vehicles with fewer firefighters on them, so I feel your pain.
This was in an email I received the other day, interesting to hear from a NIOSH viewpoint.
I believe the best place for the company officer is with his/her officer at all times.The way you guys are operating is setting your people up for DISASTER !!!!
There have been many studies completed by the IAFF,NFPA and even the International City Management Association that will back this up.Along wit a number of studies concerning FF's deaths to back this up !
Hopefully you guys are a IAFF local and the International should be of assistance to you working through the State Association and your District VP.
I know being a township you guys probably aren't covered by the collective bargaining bill.But if you are in deed are covered file something on this.
It really sounds that your Chief has no idea how the fire ground command should work !!
If you have a company officer with his crew he can take mobile command and still be with his crew !!
There are a number of big cities in Ohio that your Chief could look to learn how to properly run the fire ground !!
If you have a Captain and a Chief on a response why have the 2nd engine take command ? You have 4 engines on a response what about a Ladder company ?
On a normal house fire you should have 18-20 people with attack looking like this :
1st engine attack
2nd engine supply back up line
3rd engine Rit
Ladder search - rescue ventilation etc
Engine in staging
Our department fought the Chase Car issuse in weather emergencies were we had 1 member making runs to assist withEMS runs.
Thankfully got it thrown out.Any time a member is responding as a Chase Car in stead of with a crew is a bad deal !!
We are Fire Fighters we not Police Ofiicers we work as CREWS !!!
Contact me if I can help you
Captain Joe Meyer
Comments added to previous reply;
Our manning most of the time is at 6 guys per shift. So this would put us at 3 on the Engine, 2 on the Quint and our Officer in his car.
Again on the other hand, if our Quint goes mutual aid on a fire, he chases them and only leaves to back at the Fire house for a 2 man Medic run our a fire with only 2 guys on the Engine. My only other thought is if we had a fire with only 2 guys on the truck, yes we would go but we would have to add additional Engine to the run because we are already short off the get go.