When do we say enough?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 23, 2008 at 5:17pm

I agree with that Dave
When the boss says get out, we should. No matter what how we are leaving - withdrawl or evacuate
It's the Chief' job to make that decision. I'm assuming he has much more information on the operation than I do inside. I think of the sense of sight during interior operations as "inherent tunnel vision" becasue I can only see the inside of my mask and outside the mask is smoke.
I think listening to orders is part of what I like to call "Core Values of Common Sense Leadership" Listen to the order, quickly understand the meaning, and only question when necessary ( as in when it makes no sense and no one can get hurt if we don't do it).
Let me ask this to everyone - Should the Chief of the Oeration be looking for a REASON to make the operation to go from offensive to defensive? Espicially when the crews are already inside?

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 27, 2008 at 12:18pm

Dave
The reason I say it that way is I think he sometimes needs to be a slueth to draw info out of the companies. I think memebrs working should size up and report to the IC. Not every group has an officer either, like on the truck. That roof report is critical. The roof report can be the deciding factor if we stay inside or leave. We have a SOP that says any truss with fire exposing it is a no-go. If they can't or don;t give a good assessment of the roof conditions the IC is at a disadvantge as to the stay or go decision. The same thing can come from any FF assigned to working in the rear of the building. This position can often see the stay inside or leave factors as the roof team and if they don;t report correctly then where is the decision making process. Garbage in- garbage out.

Permalink Reply by Michael Bricault (ret) on December 27, 2008 at 2:34pm

-The one commodity the IC is starving for on scene is information. He needs this information in order to make intelligent, timely decisions to support and further activities on the fire ground.
-To that end, information should not be kept secret. If a company is given a task it must be made known.
-For example, when the Truck goes in to search they need to report that over the air as well as when the task is complete. "Ladder 5 to Battalion 2 search complete, OR incomplete due to ..... whatever"
-Where you able to complete your assigned task or not? If so why or why not? What do you need to complete the task and/or what have you found? And/or are you free to take on another job?
-Information leads to coordination; coordination leads to operational control. (Hey, that sounds pretty good. Think I'll use it again.)
-Stay safe.

Permalink Reply by Brenda Tenney on December 27, 2008 at 2:43pm

It is not hard to say no,when and fire fighter cannot go in.If the flames are high,low ,very hot.the building is going to come down.I would say no-way.....But,yet,we all should know ,when we get to and structure fire how bad it is. Would you go into and oven,such a saying ,a fire where you can not see,and know the whole place is on fire,risk your life,knowing ,that what was in there is gone. Safety first!

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 30, 2008 at 6:59pm

One of the other discussions brought up the Brett Tarver NIOSH report from Phoenix and in there , for me at least, it has company officer refusal written all over it. If the building is 26,000 sq feet how is it different than a single family house? Can't even start to count the ways!
We almost had a bad incident about 2 years ago, that I was at. Bad reports initially from the roof, command staff wanting to continue trying to get inside, free lancing, no one listening to the radio, etc...it goes on and on! All on video, no less.Someitmes, It really just comes down to just saying no at the company level and stand in front of the man if it comes to that. But, at least we're alive to do so, right?

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