Residential Fire

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff Clayton on December 16, 2008 at 9:12am

Okay, here's my train of thought....

We'd need to have excellent, aggressive ventilation. A large line would also be needed. Some good TIC work on both the exterior and interior of the structure and effective communications.

The ventilation is a must, as it always is. With the size of this roof it may be hard to decide where exactly is the best spot to place the opening, possibly the exterior TIC operator will be able to locate the area of most heat, and communicate this to the fire sector and vent sector, giving them a general idea of where the fire 'might' be.

The fire sector would have to use the TIC in a search for convection currents in such a large home, not just a quick swing of the camera to look for visible flame. As well, taking the time to check HVAC vents for heat with the TIC may indicate if the fire is below us and pushing heat through the system. This can't be confused with a running furnace, which of course, pushes heat during normal operation.

As well, not knowing where the fire is or how large it is on arrival would cause me to pull a 2 1/2 inch line. I'd hate to get deep into this house and find the smaller line just won't extinguish this fire, or hold it!

Also, like all fires, effective communications between sectors is a must. A second alarm should also be transmitted if this is found to be anything more that a mattress on fire.

I mention the effective use of the TIC by all companies beacuse we have a TIC on every unit, including the District Chiefs cars. I realize that not everyone has this tool at their disposal, but is is something that we use at all fires.

Thanks guys, stay safe.

Permalink Reply by Ray on December 16, 2008 at 10:00am

Many solid points - Because these types of homes are fairly new truss and light weight construction are most likely present and to think commercial with our tactics is a good bet. The one question I have before I step inside a building like this or a commercial with smoke but no visable fire is there a BASEMENT?

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on December 16, 2008 at 10:35am

I completely agree with Ray. We had better know about a basement, yes or no. Underwriters Laboratories has a very eye opening online class on engineered truss floors in these new homes, even in my small town, we are starting to see engineered floor trusses in remodled homes. We need enough folks to get the job done, easy two alarms, aggressive ventilation, Our guys use hose tools to advance a charged 2.5. We have to find the fire, first. The high vaulted ceiling create another hazard, all by themselves. Bottom line, stay focused, don't let your guard down, these buildings are built to kill us.

Stay Safe
Jeff

Permalink Reply by Jeff Clayton on December 16, 2008 at 3:45pm

Ray McCormack said:

Many solid points - Because these types of homes are fairly new truss and light weight construction are most likely present and to think commercial with our tactics is a good bet. The one question I have before I step inside a building like this or a commercial with smoke but no visable fire is there a BASEMENT?

Good point, why waste time looking for a basement door, only to keep running into closets! This is where that 0300 medical call that we cursed 4 months ago at the same residence comes in handy...every med call is a chance to pre-plan the structure.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 17, 2008 at 8:32pm

Ian
I think you hit the first step on the head. Investigation is key to this problem. A lap around the building might need to be done by a marathon runner. FF's can defintily get lost inside this one and the fire is going to surpise you unless you can find it quickly. I like the search rope idea because it conditions will change inside quickly.

About the venting of the basement window, it 's a good idea unless the room is sealed off tightly by a door from the rest of the basement. A few windows might be in order , like you said.

Ian Tenney said:

A ton of great points on here and I'm taking a lot from the conversation as a SFD of that size is simply outside of my experience zone here (unless it's a vacant MD with one family of vagrants in it!)

A couple of things that came to mind:
-Every report or video I've read or seen about this type of building involves (sooner or later) a very heavy, rapidly extending fire condition, the existence (or potential) for firefighter disorientation and entrapment, and due to construction features, early collapse.
-The need to become more deliberate in the deployment of companies and lines. The walkaround and exterior (and interior) thermal imager use are key. I think we would do well to have a big line run to the front door and a second engine company with the first 100' of line off the rig and standing fast in the street for rapid deployment.
-A simple (and highly effective) trick I was taught might work here, though it's generally meant for balloon frame buildings. Take a basement window (or a couple given the size of the building) in order to start the process of elimination. If the fire's in the basement, smoke should vent. If the fire is anywhere else, it won't. We've either confirmed or ruled out one possible floor for the fire's location.

I'm all on board with considering this to be, for all intents and purposes, a commercial building. This could (probably should) include transmitting a working fire or second alarm due to the building size, probable construction and associated issues. Aerial devices should take position, set up and be ready to get the roof. Supply lines should be laid and appropriately-sized handlines at least started to a point of entry.

The search rope also isn't a bad idea. Going out on a limb, neither is your nose as you first get off the rig and take a look. Maybe we're lucky and what we've got is a really charged up food on the stove. While it probably isn't, (and even if it started that way could easily have extended either by the time we arrive or the time we find it) I'm sure we've all been to food on the stoves that looked like we were going to work from the outside. Sunday night we took one in that everyone on the rig commented on as the affected floor was vented out by the first due truck; without having the smell to go by, (and the report of the truck boss) the amount of smoke pouring out of the opened windows would have had us also 'sure' of a working fire.

One last thing - more of an educated guess based on what little I've seen in other communities or read about these 'Starter Mansions' - listening for water flow from residential sprinklers? Also, maybe zone information from the alarm system could help us if it's available. I look forward to following the discussion and reading what people who deal with these buildings have for insight.

Be safe.

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