You're first due to this fire, now what?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eric Hankins on December 3, 2008 at 10:13pm

Jim,

I would agree wholeheartedly. And in this case I believe that would work. It looks to me that the fire building is a small building in a wide open area that allows for a line to be stretched to the rear with little effort. Unfortunately, that is not my first due. The challenges of stretching a line to the rear of a building in my district out weigh MOST benefits. The fire will grow larger and cause more damage while I am jumping fences and dodging abandonded cars, than if I enter from the front and push a little fire. A straight or solid attack would be my only preference.

I do aggree that ventinig in front of the fire attack, Venting for Fire, is a sound fireground tactic. We try to use an OVM when ever possible. My concern all along with this building is the signs of backdraft that are showing at arrival. Altough the room did light up, I did not really see a true backdraft in the video. That would be my concern based on the heat line at the door and puffing smoke.

That is why I would hesitate on taking windows first.

Backdrafts don't happen near as often as they did in the 60's and 70's but that doesn't mean they are any less dangerous today.

Jim Mason said:

I'm thinking if there was a report of some one inside they would have to be in the rear with a door closed. In that case would an entry into the rear with venting of the windows in front be a good thing to do? Then vent the roof. What do you think? With a report of some one trapped would the hose team wait for venting of the roof?

Eric Hankins said:

Jim,

Looking at the heat line on the door and depending on what I/we saw on a walk around, I would say that the possiblity of someone still alive insode would be slim. That being said, We are going to get in there and put the fire out and search in a hurry. The benefit of going vertical with the vent is hopefully the heat and smoke will lift quicker than taking the door and possibly (in the video) intinsifing the fire.

Our Engines areall fairly close so the water supply/RIT assignment could easily go to the third due engine. And RIT although not required would still be nice. Even if not a Formal RIT and second line to back up the first....


Also, That fire would darken down ALOT faster with a 1 3/4" line minimum. It almost looks as if the crew in the video is using a booster line...

Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on December 4, 2008 at 12:33pm

I think, as the company officer, reading the smoke conditions in the front of the structure, coupled with the apparent high heat condition in the front, I'm convinced, rescue or not, a big line to the rear is the way to go. The heat is definately in the front of the structure. Unless, something really stands out on my 360, having my ff/emt's clean the front windows and hitting it hard and blowing out the front window and door, seems appropriate, even with the minor added twist Jim. Thanks for giving me more to think about! We learn everyday we're on the job.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on December 5, 2008 at 1:39pm

Eric and Jeff ,
We have the same problems of getting in the rear as you describe, forcible entry problems, attack dogs in the back yards, no access at all to the back in some areas. There is also the thought that we don;t push fire but just a heat and steam wave to the rear if we enter and hit the fire from the front door. I think most of the decisions on the fire ground are situational so that one size does not fit all. It's really that we should consider things even when we don;t have a regular oppurtunity to peform them in our dept's bread and butter fires.
For you Eric you can;t get to the rear to make an attack because of the normal situations that you have in your response district, maybe in Jeff's he has that chance. This thought (process, if you will ) that a simple change of attack avenue would do so much to save a life that was reported to us before we commited to an interior attack is the decisions that we must consider on the scene to be as good at this as possible.

In my dept we also have some that think there is such a high price to pay be attacking from the unburned side that it is not worth it. Those officers will swear that every time they did it, they were caught up in the three bikes sitting just inside the entranceway , then the ten cardboard boxes filled with old tax rerturns, then the sofa bed that was placed on end in the hallway because the occupants were going to throw it out next garbage day and the list goes on as to what the hose team would run into before it got water on the fire. Even decisions like this are made based on preplanning and knowing your reponse area.


Jeff Schwering said:

I think, as the company officer, reading the smoke conditions in the front of the structure, coupled with the apparent high heat condition in the front, I'm convinced, rescue or not, a big line to the rear is the way to go. The heat is definately in the front of the structure. Unless, something really stands out on my 360, having my ff/emt's clean the front windows and hitting it hard and blowing out the front window and door, seems appropriate, even with the minor added twist Jim. Thanks for giving me more to think about! We learn everyday we're on the job.

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