So many cities have High-Rise structures and the tactics used by various departments varies as much as the cities themselves. The group is designed to allow Metro-City and Big-City firefighters discuss this challenging aspect of our jobs.
In the October 2008 FireEngineering Magazine entitled "High-rise firefighting Perils:Veteran's Perspectives" by Jeff Crow. This is an amazing article, I hope you all read it but there is one area of the article that I have some questions about. On page 104 under the "Ventilation" portion of the article the author quotes Jack Bennett as saying, "As for ventilation of the fire-involved areas, Bennett says, ""You're not bashful about the windows. You take those babies out.""
This is so contrary to what I have ever been taught concerning High-Rise Fires; I just gotta know if this seems like a contrary tactic to anyone else. What say you?
These are all excellent posts. Although, I believe that the same information and caution applies to low rise or even one and two story buildings if the right (wrong) wind conditions exist.
I believe that the "Wind driven effect" and the dangers also apply to these lesser considered structures and to departments that do not protect high-rise buildings. I think if we all examine past fires with this "new" information in mind, we can identify many "smaller" building fires that fit the criteria. One that immediately comes to mind for me was a three story garden apartment with fire on the first. As the still engine was stretching down the hall, the occupant had returned to rescue his dog. The patio door had failed just prior to his opening the door. When he did, he was killed in place and the engine crew was luck they were close to the enclosed stairway. The hallway immediately became untennable and the crew survived because they were able to quickly retreat and the nozzleman kept working as they backed into the satirwell. The winds were in the 25-30 mph range directly into the A side of the building.
A few more thoughts.... We all need to take a good, hard look at the information being developed during the ongoing research with NIST, FDNY, Chicago FD and others as it continues to unfold. I think we will all need to re-examine our SOPs and revise our operations to address the wind driven phenomenon. I sense that many small and medium size departments consider the whole wind driven issue a high-rise problem and therefore, a big city fire department issue.
I'm sure most of you brothers have already seen this one. Any thoughts on this? I imagine this would have to be an EXTREMELY coordinated operation. Copy and Paste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUUJ2ktNGmk
Art Zern
I believe that the "Wind driven effect" and the dangers also apply to these lesser considered structures and to departments that do not protect high-rise buildings. I think if we all examine past fires with this "new" information in mind, we can identify many "smaller" building fires that fit the criteria. One that immediately comes to mind for me was a three story garden apartment with fire on the first. As the still engine was stretching down the hall, the occupant had returned to rescue his dog. The patio door had failed just prior to his opening the door. When he did, he was killed in place and the engine crew was luck they were close to the enclosed stairway. The hallway immediately became untennable and the crew survived because they were able to quickly retreat and the nozzleman kept working as they backed into the satirwell. The winds were in the 25-30 mph range directly into the A side of the building.
What are your thoughts?
Nov 29, 2008
Art Zern
A few more thoughts.... We all need to take a good, hard look at the information being developed during the ongoing research with NIST, FDNY, Chicago FD and others as it continues to unfold. I think we will all need to re-examine our SOPs and revise our operations to address the wind driven phenomenon. I sense that many small and medium size departments consider the whole wind driven issue a high-rise problem and therefore, a big city fire department issue.
Again, I am interested in your thoughts.
Nov 29, 2008
Joe Pantaleo
May 28, 2009