Fire Engineering Training Community
High-Rise Fire Group
So many cities have High-Rise structures and the tactics used by various departments varies as much as the cities themselves. The group is designed to allow Metro-City and Big-City firefighters discuss this challenging aspect of our jobs.
scissor stairways
Hello,
In the netherlands we have allmost allways scissor stairways in high rise buildings.
If a operation is started from the stairways with an 2"hose and the door is open how are you shore that none of the evacuees is becoming in the same stairways, and use the orther stairways?
In the netherlands we don`t use evacuation with an elevator
As prevention systems whe nowe pressure stairways all stairways can stand 60 minutes of fire and we work 2 layers below the firelayer.
I hope everyone can read my english.
With Kind regards,
Martijn
In the netherlands we have allmost allways scissor stairways in high rise buildings.
If a operation is started from the stairways with an 2"hose and the door is open how are you shore that none of the evacuees is becoming in the same stairways, and use the orther stairways?
In the netherlands we don`t use evacuation with an elevator
As prevention systems whe nowe pressure stairways all stairways can stand 60 minutes of fire and we work 2 layers below the firelayer.
I hope everyone can read my english.
With Kind regards,
Martijn
John Norman
Scissor stairs or not, you must ensure there are no civilians in the attack stair before the door to the fire floor is opened. There are several ways to do this, the best is to have someone physically check. In NYC, we routinely have members proceeding to the floor above, and at serious fires, to the upper floors and roof. This is one of their assignments. With limited manpower, it may be begun by members of the attack team calling out up the stair before opening. If there are public address systems available, the lobby command can use it to direct occupants to the evacuation stair. Keep in mind that most occupants have no idea where the stairs are, and certainly no idea of it's designation. Avoid saying "Use stair B for evacuation." It is usually better to say something like "Use the stair on the side facing the river," or "the stairs facing 2nd Avenue" or some other easily identified reference point.
At the earliest possible moment, additional personnel should be assigned to begin physical examination of the attack stair. This may be done by ascending the evacuation stair and crossing over to the attack stair at each floor landing for a quick look. Once the stair is contaminated, most civilians will not enter, we are looking for people who are already descending when conditions suddenly changed and caught them before they could exit to a floor.
Jan 18, 2009
Martijn Boeijink
Thank you for your reply.
I agree that it`s just normal thinking and use my head with this.
I will take it with me in an instruction for operational firecrews.
Jan 21, 2009
Charles Jennings
The short answer is that most department's don't do anything about this. Chicago recently implemented a policy to send personnel up the stairs before attack begins, but for your department, the approach can vary depending on whether stairwell doors are unlocked from the stair side, and whether you have public address capability (at a minimum) in the stairs). Of course, stairway designation and occupant education are also required. Most departments do not have the personnel on an initial basis to do what Chicago does.
May 4, 2009