Tandem prusiks are always the popular choice for many reasons...cost...failure notice....etc. However have you ever had the chance to try the 540? I thinks it's the best ting since the invention of the nozzle (for you engine guys out there) If a load is caught on it the rescuer or student will drop a greater distance due to the stretch of the rope as opposed to the rope slipping through the belay. This sometimes does happen with tandem prusiks if they are tied improperly or the prusiks are left loose around the rope. I'll be putting out a webcast within the next week or two pertaining to the 540 belay.
Have you always used tandem prusiks or have you experimented with other belay devices?
Thanks for the comment Rob!
Mike Donahue www.progressiverescue.com
We utilize both the tandem prusiks and the 540, it's pretty much the crew's choice at the time. Personally, I would rather use tandem prusiks especially if your crew's experience is lacking. The 540 seems to require a certain degree of finesse and practice that may or may not be present among the crew. Tandem prusiks are cheap, easy to make, easy to replace, provide a greater warning of and less of a chance of failure, and have minimal (no) moving mechanical parts. Above all they are simple. We are awaiting arrival of a few Petz IDs. I played with them in a class not that long ago and I liked them, as with anything there is a learning curve especially in finding "the sweet spot." Once past that curve it seems to be a great addition to the hardware bag.
John,
Thanks for joining the group. You brought up a lot of great points. The comment regarding the 540 seems to be true among a lot of rescuers. If you train on it properly for a few min it becomes like second nature. However the price point compared to prusiks is rather large. That alone will shy departments away from the 540.
The Petzl "ID" is a great device and you'll have a lot of fun with it. Just make sure you buy the "RED" G rated model.
Thanks again for joining and stay safe,
Mike Donahue
Progressive Rescue
I have recently been asked by a local company to assit them in training for stokes basket operations utilizing their Pierce 105' pre-piped straight stick. The apparatus came with Pierce's Lyfe Pulley Rescue System. After researching the system, I've found that it can be rigged two ways, one supporting a maximum load of 500# with the main line anchored at the base of the aerial, and the other supporting a maximum load of 250# with the main line anchored to a separate anchor independant of the apparatus. Both ways can be utilized as a COD/High point or a crane type set-up. Correct me if I am wrong, however if the aerial has a 1000# tip load, wouldn't you be better off rigging the main 4 rungs back from the tip with a sling or webbing and maintaining the full use of the 1000# tip load? Does any one have any experience with this particular system, I am open to suggestions/exepriences.
John, I know of a Fire Department that used their Pierce Ladder Truck for a raising operation. I do believe they used their Lyfe Pulley system. Here is a link to the article on Vent-Enter-Search. http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=338 If you would like a way of getting ahold of him let me know and I can ask him.
oh yeah and Jon, I have found that the best way to use the Petzl Id is by making sure you don't use your whole hand to activate the lever. Just use 2 fingers to pull on the lever. If you use your whole hand you pull with too much force.
Ahhh...I love the chatter regarding the Petzl I'D. Ditch the tandem prusik belay and if you haven't.... try the I'D. You can eliminate the need for a LRH and you can lower with the belay! Saves time and equipment. Just my 0.02.
Mike, Don't get me wrong I really like the Petzl I'D but I do prefer a tandem prusik belay set up. Yes you have to use a LRH but if you the I'd for some reason turns 90 deg it is no good. The rope just slips. If the belayer is doing his/her job with good technique there should be no need for a LHR and the prusiks should work great.
Question for you all out there? What do you use for a load releasing hitch?
That's the idea, when held sideways in a belay application the rope will run freely keeping pace with the lowering line. When a sudden load is applied it will snap back into it's nutral position locking the load in place. This is I application that had been tested and proven to work. Outside of the testing done the dimple physics of the ID application will dictate it be put in the locked off position should a load be applied.
Thanks for the info Jeremy & welcome to the group. I'd love to talk with your friend regarding the Lyfe Pulley set up. I was a pretty hard core TWP belay guy, but the more I've been able to play with the ID'L my preference is changing. I'm finding with the guys I work with, a little training seems to change their toon as well. As far as my preference for the LRH, I'm partial to the RRH. Simple to tie, & a built in MA. Stay safe.
Mike, I would be interested in seeing how you handle the I'D in a belay setting. Do you just hold it at 90 deg the whole time you are lowering on belay? and the person being lowered pulls on the belay line? I was always taught the the belay line should always have a slight amount of slack in it. Just trying to better understand the operation.
Mike Donahue
Jun 20, 2010
rob Noble
Jun 21, 2010
Mike Donahue
Have you always used tandem prusiks or have you experimented with other belay devices?
Thanks for the comment Rob!
Mike Donahue
www.progressiverescue.com
Jun 22, 2010
John D. Calamia
Jul 27, 2010
Mike Donahue
Thanks for joining the group. You brought up a lot of great points. The comment regarding the 540 seems to be true among a lot of rescuers. If you train on it properly for a few min it becomes like second nature. However the price point compared to prusiks is rather large. That alone will shy departments away from the 540.
The Petzl "ID" is a great device and you'll have a lot of fun with it. Just make sure you buy the "RED" G rated model.
Thanks again for joining and stay safe,
Mike Donahue
Progressive Rescue
Jul 28, 2010
John D. Calamia
Jul 28, 2010
Jim Rigstad
Sep 20, 2010
Jeremy Fox
John, I know of a Fire Department that used their Pierce Ladder Truck for a raising operation. I do believe they used their Lyfe Pulley system. Here is a link to the article on Vent-Enter-Search. http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=338 If you would like a way of getting ahold of him let me know and I can ask him.
Dec 17, 2010
Jeremy Fox
oh yeah and Jon, I have found that the best way to use the Petzl Id is by making sure you don't use your whole hand to activate the lever. Just use 2 fingers to pull on the lever. If you use your whole hand you pull with too much force.
Dec 17, 2010
Mike Donahue
Ahhh...I love the chatter regarding the Petzl I'D. Ditch the tandem prusik belay and if you haven't.... try the I'D. You can eliminate the need for a LRH and you can lower with the belay! Saves time and equipment. Just my 0.02.
Mike
Dec 17, 2010
Jeremy Fox
Mike, Don't get me wrong I really like the Petzl I'D but I do prefer a tandem prusik belay set up. Yes you have to use a LRH but if you the I'd for some reason turns 90 deg it is no good. The rope just slips. If the belayer is doing his/her job with good technique there should be no need for a LHR and the prusiks should work great.
Question for you all out there? What do you use for a load releasing hitch?
Dec 17, 2010
Mike Donahue
Dec 18, 2010
John D. Calamia
Dec 18, 2010
Jeffrey Post
I have not used to Petzel ID, I do like the CMC MPD,, it may be a tough sell at work. I just got them turned onto the idea of TWP's.
Dec 18, 2010
Jeremy Fox
Mike, I would be interested in seeing how you handle the I'D in a belay setting. Do you just hold it at 90 deg the whole time you are lowering on belay? and the person being lowered pulls on the belay line? I was always taught the the belay line should always have a slight amount of slack in it. Just trying to better understand the operation.
Dec 18, 2010