Just a few incidents that make me feel that "pushing" the fire is bad.

1. As a fire investigator I responded to a fire in a garage. First units arrived and hit the fire from the open garage door with a hand line 2 1/2. The crews never made entry to the structure until the fire began to show from a window in the kitchen. The kitchen was the room attached to the interior garage door. The fire eventually spread to the second floor and about 3/4 of the first floor. The investigation showed the one of two vehicles was the origin of the fire. The crew who put the first line into the open garage pushed the fire into the house causing the fire spread. You could see where the line knocked holes in the sheet rock which caused the fire to spread. It is better to fight the fire in to out not out to in.

2. As a second due Engine Acting Officer. Fire in a closed garage. Crew went to an exterior window to knock the fire down. They knoced alot of fire down. My crew was ordered to take the 2nd line into the front doot to the garage. What the exterior crew did not know was that the fire had taken the top of the garage door to the interior of the house. The line in use by the first due Engine pushed the fire into the hall. As my crew went down the hall and the fire was pushed onto us. We opened up our line and knocked the fire back and continued to make our push. The problem was we were fighting the first line until they shut down. If a second line was not in place the fire would have taken the interior of the house too. If the line on the exterior was a 2 1/2 my crew could have been hurt and our line would have been overwhelmed.

3. As a witness I arrived at a one story single family CBS home. Fire was venting from one window. The first in engine was ordered by the BC to open its deck gun into the window. The front door was open and no fire was visible in the interior but the involved room. The deck gun was opened and with in a short time the fire was seen being pushed into the rest of the home. The deck gun dumped the tank water and no supply line was set up. The fire over took the interior and within short time the home was lost.

I learned up North that fighting a fire is best when it starts in and the fire is pushed out. With Vent and hose work you keep the damage to a mininum. If you only have a two person crew try to hit the fire from inside but as close to the point of eagress as you can.

Dave,

I'll give you a few short answers, then explain. Can fire be "pushed"? Yes, I try to do it every opportunity I get. Have I done it wrong? Yes! Should you attack from the unburned side? Of course.

The two previous posts indicate just how easily fire can be pushed.

Now, It's not always a bad thing, just think of where you're nozzle team is and where the fire is. Think about room size, fire load, BTU's produced, and GPM you can effectively deliver to the seat of the fire. Wind speed can also play a factor in deciding how you're going to attack a given fire along with many other variables. However, If you have the GPM to knock the fire down, and the structure is still safe to operate in, attack from the unburned side and push the fire out a window or exterior doorway.

We often think of pushing the fire to be a bad thing, well it is, if we do it wrong!

Now Dave, I am by far an expert in this grand job that we do, and I have entered from the wrong side and pushed the fire where it shouldn't have been, and caused needless property damage. The important thing is that myself and the officer in charge that day learned from our mistakes.

Don mentions being 'overwhelmed', this is always an issue. In his case it was another company pushing the fire, but an unexpected window blowing out or shift in the wind (for those coastal communities with tide changes) can also cause you to be overwhelmed by heat and fire. Take a line that you know will do the job, you need the GPM when things start to go bad.

As I mentioned, I'm not an expert, hopefully some others will post and we can all learn more from this discussion.

Stay Safe,
Jeff

Dave, lets also remember that every situation will differ, and the length of your lay will have a lot to do with your decision. As will the staffing that you mentioned. Lets concentrate on safely and effectively applying GPM to the seat of the fire.

As well, right or wrong, my department uses fog nozzles, so pushing the fire is of great concern to me and some of my coworkers. There's a PowerPoint/video presentation that I've seen which gives measurements of air movement from different nozzles and application methods, I'll try to find it again and send it to you.

All of the posts are correct. If done wrong, you will push fire through a building, especially with a fog pattern or combination nozzle. However, the objective is to put enough water (cooling agent) to reduce the BTU's enough to minimize the amount of fire initially. If the correct line is used at the right time a "blitz" attack can be effective and is appropriate. The key element here is experience, knowing approx. how much fire you have in regards to BTU's and having enough water to knock down the bulk of fire. But, don't forget, after the initial knock down, an aggressive interior attack will likely be needed to get to the seat of the fire. Hope this helps.