I'm answering for Jim Hester, he's out of pocket for a few days and wanted to make sure we got back with you about the LPG props. We are currently using a tree prop, 2 flange props, propane tank as our primary props. The vapor doesn't produce the volume or pressure that we desire and we are getting ready to run it from LNG at the bottom of the tank. We noticed you are running it straight from a propane supply truck. What valving if any do you use in line prior to the prop?
We are having some LPG issues. We are using a propane tank for our gas simulated fires but are not getting the pressures we are needing for our props. Right now we are coming off the vapor side of the tank. Do we need to reconfigure our setup to come off the liquid side of the tank to achieve the desired pressures or can we do something else.
I an hoping to find another slot we just do not get a lot of cancellations and I just added this class regarding the NIST tests on Thursday, April 10, 2008, 1:30 pm-3:15 pm
Taming the Dragon
Moderator: Battalion Chief Jerry Tracy, Fire Department of New York; Panel: Dan Madrzykowski and Steve Kerber, National Institute of Standards and Technology; George Healy and John Ceriello, Fire Department of New York; Rich Edgeworth, Chicago (IL) Fire Department; John “Skip” Coleman (ret.), Toledo (OH) Department of Fire and Rescue; and Peter McBride, Ottawa Fire Services
This panel will share cutting-edge research on fighting fires against wind in high-rise structures. Research has been ongoing for the past two years, with the most recent segment of live fire studies conducted in New York City this past February. A panel of engineers and fire department members will expound on their involvement in this project and the profound change that is taking place in their respective departments. The consequence of the research will enhance firefighter safety and efficiency when fighting these types of fires.
These are my comments back to John Salka on the research. It is a little early to issue any formal information on the research but I’ll share what I passed on to him.
The results of the research were more then we expected. We are formulating training segments for our Chief Officers, High Rise units; selected units issued HR Nozzles, etc. The entire department will be issued DVD’s and will eventually attend training that will explain in detail the scope of the live fire research, concept of stairwell pressurization and the enhanced fire ground efficiency and safety it will provide as never before. The alternate approach of “Taming the Dragon” or reducing the Blow Torch conditions with use of a (WCD’s) Wind Control Devices (Blanket or Curtain) and High Rise nozzles has proven to be very effective in conjunction with stairwell pressurization. I have heard that on some internet pages the HR nozzle has been referred to as the “Coward Stick”. I’m sure we can both agree whom ever they are WE know they have never been in the hallway approaching a Wind Driven Fire! In their best fantasy they wouldn’t make it, unless they actually wanted to go to the hospital for us to recognize that they really are A**#$%@&. We would wish they get the best of care including treatment of an experienced proctologist.
Brooklyn Poly and NIST will be reviewing the data and hope to publish the final and comprehendible results by the end of the year. Dan Madrzykowski and Steve Kerber of NIST should both be at the FDIC in Indy. I hope to share some of the information during the High Rise workshop myself and Jack Murphy will offer on the Monday and Tuesday at FDIC.
Can't seem to open your video...keep getting the "yikes" popup. If it is the one that appeared on the weekly suppliment, I've viewed it, and have some real concerns with it. Don't know if you've ever been operating interiorly on a sprinkled building fire, but at the sprinkler or onder it when the proverbial do is hitting the fan is not a real good place to be...what concerns me from the video is that there is a good amount of heat directly above the operating crew when the sprinkler is turned on, banking a tremendous amount of superheated steam down, similar to the effects of a fog stream but with even less water! You claim it is there for added safety, when in reality it may do more harm than good. Safer practices would be to attack using the reach of the stream to gain headway on an involved room. I also have concerns with overloading of fuel and lack of a good fire prediction in the set area, both of which are discussed and pressed in 1403, something that is a fundamental part of live fire training. As for having it in the structure to prevent rekindles...there should be no such thing as a rekindle if you do the proper overhaul. I guess for a back up it's not bad, but definately not the norm. I've burned in structures for weeks on the same structure, never had this problem or saw a need to do what you are advocating, just sticking to the basics seems to work. Again, improper fire travel and behavior techniques and planning are the root of this problem.
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