Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-29T14:46:26ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNurhttps://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1534552334?profile=RESIZE_48X48&width=48&height=48&crop=1%3A1https://community.fireengineering.com/group/truckcompanyoperations/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=0on76dmp4kffj&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSaws, Saw Blades, and Saw Set-ups on Truck Companiestag:community.fireengineering.com,2013-03-25:1219672:Topic:5787632013-03-25T13:42:24.492ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
<p><span>I am looking for some thoughts on saws, saw blades, and saw set-ups on truck companies. We are a suburb of Dallas that runs one truck company. Our operations are based on a 5 person truck crew with an interior team of 2, an exterior team of 2, and an OV. It is the responsibility of the exterior team and OV to address forcible entry and ventilation on all interior operations. I am currently writing the Saws Section of our Truck Manual and I would like some feedback on experiences…</span></p>
<p><span>I am looking for some thoughts on saws, saw blades, and saw set-ups on truck companies. We are a suburb of Dallas that runs one truck company. Our operations are based on a 5 person truck crew with an interior team of 2, an exterior team of 2, and an OV. It is the responsibility of the exterior team and OV to address forcible entry and ventilation on all interior operations. I am currently writing the Saws Section of our Truck Manual and I would like some feedback on experiences with saws and blades for forcible entry and ventilation on residential and commercial dwellings. We do conduct vertical ventilation operations when necessary.</span></p> Free vent class right here!tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-05-03:1219672:Topic:3550192011-05-03T03:32:40.062ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
<p>Following a few emails from FDIC and some recent messages I figured I would just post this.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269324736?profile=original" target="_self">Brush FDIC2011 Ventilation Principles and Practices</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the same text that is available in the FDIC 2011 downloads from my presentation. We were required to submit the text in January so I have made quite a few changes since this was posted with recent information such…</p>
<p>Following a few emails from FDIC and some recent messages I figured I would just post this.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269324736?profile=original">Brush FDIC2011 Ventilation Principles and Practices</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the same text that is available in the FDIC 2011 downloads from my presentation. We were required to submit the text in January so I have made quite a few changes since this was posted with recent information such as the <a href="http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/fireservice/ventilation/" target="_blank">UL Ventilation of Legacy and Contemporary Residential Construction Study</a> Overall most of the message is the same. All the videos referred to in this text are available on this site under videos or on my page. Chief Norwood of East Haven Connecticut has also posted some unbelievably good footage in the video section as well that will also support current teaching an training.</p>
<p>The Fire Engineering Community Site is "Where firefighters come to talk training" take this opportunity to collect that which has been made so available to you to build classes that meet the needs of your department. <a href="http://www.traditionstraining.com/" target="_blank">Traditions Training</a> <a href="http://www.urbanfirefighter.com" target="_blank">Urban Firefighter</a> <a href="http://brotherhoodinstructors.com/" target="_blank">Brotherhood Instructors</a> Talk is good but doing something with the discussion is what moves us from the kitchen table to the classroom, drill ground and the rig.</p>
<p>I know firefighters well enough to understand that you will not agree with all of what I have to say or all that is posted on any of these other sites. Save the energy wasted in rebuttals and put it to work. The greatest compliment to my work would be to see you better yourself and those around you by dedicating time and research to making your own message which completely counters mine. I am a firm believer that we should not be allowed to have opinions if we fail to truly listen to the opinion of others.</p>
<p>In the end, training must be shared. I would have nothing if nothing was given to me. We are in control of the future of the fire service and this is the place where cultural change is driven.</p>
<p>Thank you-</p>
<p>Brian Brush</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Forever indebted to those who came before me,stand beside me and who will carry the message forward! </p>
<p>"Courage, Determination and Pride" "Keep fire in your life" (Ray McCormack FDIC Keynote 2009)</p>
<p> </p> Misapplication of the trench cuttag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-12:1219672:Topic:3176152011-04-12T18:28:31.072ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313716?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-left" height="247" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313716?profile=original" width="335"></img></a> <span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: times new roman,times;">The classic trench cut shown to the left has not changed by definition, only by misapplication…</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313716?profile=original"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313716?profile=original" class="align-left" width="335" height="247"/></a><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3">The classic trench cut shown to the left has not changed by definition, only by misapplication</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">. The trench cut was developed during the 1960’s in New York city during an exceptionally busy fire era. The trench component</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">of the trench cut is to create a fire break and provide access for fire streams not to ventilate the cockloft.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">The tactic was brought outside the city when the first edition of John Norman’s Fire Officers Handbook was published. At about the same time John Norman published his book, John</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">Mittendorf</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">also published his book on truck company operations which describes “strip ventilation”. Strip ventilation is essentially expanding the louvered cuts or adjusting your louvered cuts to the roof layout. Strip ventilation is a ventilation opening for the purpose of venting. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">I can think of at least a handful of fires at our department where these two tactics have been misunderstood, misapplied and in the end been either entirely ineffective or drawn fire and compounded problems. I hope this brief review can help clear some things up.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;"><br/></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;"><strong>The Trench Cut</strong></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;"><strong><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313746?profile=original"><img width="450" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313746?profile=RESIZE_480x480" class="align-left" width="450"/></a></strong></span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">Trench Cut</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">1. Large vent hole over fire area.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">2.Observation cuts between fire area and determined trench location.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">3. Cut trench at narrow point and pull ceiling but do not pull trench.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">4. Position hose lines underneath and above</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-2">5.When fire shows from observation cuts. Open the trench and operate hoselines.</span></p>
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<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">This picture and points come directly from the Norman text. It outlines the requirements for a trench cut operation. Note that the first order of business is a large vent hole over the fire area.</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">The main vent over the fire area may be burn through or a hole cut by firefighters. Observation cuts are placed between the main hole and the trench to provide indication of fire travel . Lastly, we have the trench cut as the fire break in an area which</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">hose lines</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">can be safely staffed and operated. The trench cut is not to be opened until the observation cuts are indicating the fire has overwhelmed the main vent and is moving towards the trench. In these situations with the common cockloft, early opening of the trench will potentially draw fire. Since the tactic is primarily used in tenements of H or E type construction that provided "choke points" the next question usually comes up.</span> <span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3">Since we don’t have H or E type tenement buildings when would we use trench cuts? Any type of flat roof on a “winged” building will work however the most common application in most suburban departments is limiting extension in strip-malls. This would be an example of set-up for a center unit Keep in mind with the lack of a narrow point this becomes extremely manpower intesive and time consuming.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313957?profile=original"><img width="550" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269313957?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-center" width="550"/></a><strong>Trench Cuts are not a Peaked Roof Tactic</strong></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3"><strong><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269315050?profile=original"><img width="600" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269315050?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-center" width="600"/></a></strong></span></p>
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<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">In the top left picture we can see fire burning through the ridge with nothing showing at the eaves. This is a great picture to demonstrate the funnel or heat trap effect of peaked roofs and how it accelerates horizontal fire spread at the ridge. Keep this in mind that fire spread through the peaked roof is not consistent. Fire will travel the entire space at the ridge long before lower points in the field become involved. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">On the bottom we see the “trench cut” crews created in the roof to prevent fire spread. Knowing what we know about peaked roofs and seeing the picture on the left it should be clear that the further we get from the ridge when venting attic spaces more time and energy is being wasted. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">The firefighters operating on the right have made a lot of cuts however their ventilation opening is very narrow overall. Based on fire behavior and building construction we know that the ridge will be hit the hardest and fastest by fire spread. A narrow opening like this at the high point will be quickly overrun. <br/></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;">To prevent horizontal fire spread in peaked roof construction a trench cut is not required. The entire deck of a flat roof is the high point of the cockloft therefore a wall to wall cut is required. In peaked roof construction the peak is the high point and the only place that needs addressing. Here is where the Strip Vent comes in.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: black;"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269316149?profile=original"><img width="600" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269316149?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-center" width="600"/></a> When we encounter fire in the attic of a peaked roof occupancy and fire spread is the main concern the most appropriate tactic and efficient use of resources is a strip vent . Put firefighters on the ridge at a point you have determined you want to stop fire travel. This point should be far enough from current fire location that the tactic can be completed but not at a point that you will draw fire to a location you are trying to salvage. Open up along the ridge with an appropriate sized hole for the volume of the attic space. This may end up being 4x12 in occupancies like the hotel above. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269317168?profile=original"><img width="600" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269317168?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-center" width="600"/></a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3">While the "7,9,8" or "Coffin" cuts are typically associated with flat roofs they work great in peaked roof strip ventilation because of the louver and vent cut process that is easily expanded to meet the situation. By making a large opening at the high point the fire/heat/smoke traveling along the ridge will be released up and out this opening killing the horizontal momentum and stopping fire spread.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3"><strong>Final Notes</strong></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 4.32pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; text-align: left; direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed; vertical-align: baseline;"><br/><span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3">There is certainly more to this topic than is addressed in this short post. I know that misapplication of the trench cut on peaked roofs has occurred at our department and from pictures I have seen from around the country this confusion is not isolated. Do not force a tactic to fit. If we consider our goal (to stop fire spread) and take into consideration fire behavior and building construction the appropriate tactic will be clear.</span></p>
<span style="font-family: times new roman,times;" class="font-size-3"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269318242?profile=original"><img width="600" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1269318242?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-center" width="600"/></a></span> Rio Hondo Regional Truck Academytag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-08-10:1219672:Topic:1903642010-08-10T03:30:53.634ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
The Rio Hondo Regional Truck Academy is an intensive 11 day (88 hour) training course designed for the Professional Firefighter. No matter what size department you come from, this course is for you!<br />
<br />
This course was designed to be primarily hands-on and is physically demanding. Topics include Building Construction, Aerial Apparatus Rescue, Ventilation, Forcible Entry, Rapid Intervention Crew Tactics, Thermal Imaging, High Rise Operations, Elevator Rescue, Auto Extrication, and more....<br />
<br />
This is…
The Rio Hondo Regional Truck Academy is an intensive 11 day (88 hour) training course designed for the Professional Firefighter. No matter what size department you come from, this course is for you!<br />
<br />
This course was designed to be primarily hands-on and is physically demanding. Topics include Building Construction, Aerial Apparatus Rescue, Ventilation, Forcible Entry, Rapid Intervention Crew Tactics, Thermal Imaging, High Rise Operations, Elevator Rescue, Auto Extrication, and more....<br />
<br />
This is a great training opportunity that always fills up fast!<br />
<br />
Classes are held around October and March of every year.<br />
<br />
Please visit <a href="http://www.riohondotruckacademy.com">http://www.riohondotruckacademy.com</a> for additional information RIO HONDO REGIONAL TRUCK ACADEMY- JUNE 7-12 & 14-18tag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-04-19:1219672:Topic:1753832010-04-19T03:14:19.923ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
Rio Hondo Regional Truck Academy<br />
<br />
Class 4, June 7-12 & 14-18, 2010<br />
<br />
Applications are currently being accepted<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.riohondotruckacademy.com">www.riohondotruckacademy.com</a>
Rio Hondo Regional Truck Academy<br />
<br />
Class 4, June 7-12 & 14-18, 2010<br />
<br />
Applications are currently being accepted<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.riohondotruckacademy.com">www.riohondotruckacademy.com</a> Click Methodtag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-02-12:1219672:Topic:1690912010-02-12T17:15:10.020ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
Hello all...I'm trying to find an article in FE about the "Click Method" for ground ladder raises, and I can't locate it using the search on the site. Does anyone know the month and year this article was published? Thanks for your help.
Hello all...I'm trying to find an article in FE about the "Click Method" for ground ladder raises, and I can't locate it using the search on the site. Does anyone know the month and year this article was published? Thanks for your help. Painting the tips of ground ladderstag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-01-27:1219672:Topic:1676912010-01-27T01:42:57.584ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
<p>We at the Wake Forest FD are planning on painting the tips of our ladders according to NFPA. We are looking to paint the tips with a red reflective paint for higher visibilty at night. Has anyone used or can anyone give me advise on taking on this project. I have not had much success on finding red reflective paint.</p>
<p>What does your department do???</p>
<p>We at the Wake Forest FD are planning on painting the tips of our ladders according to NFPA. We are looking to paint the tips with a red reflective paint for higher visibilty at night. Has anyone used or can anyone give me advise on taking on this project. I have not had much success on finding red reflective paint.</p>
<p>What does your department do???</p> Mid-mount vs. rear-mounttag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-01-13:1219672:Topic:1665912010-01-13T03:18:09.820ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
Looking for pros and cons of each. Currently have mid-mount, but looking at rear-mount (FEMA grant possibly coming for $750,000). Many of us only have experience w/ mid-mount aerials. Please tell me your experiences (good or bad). Thanks!
Looking for pros and cons of each. Currently have mid-mount, but looking at rear-mount (FEMA grant possibly coming for $750,000). Many of us only have experience w/ mid-mount aerials. Please tell me your experiences (good or bad). Thanks! Looking for Training Materialstag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-09-15:1219672:Topic:1588892009-09-15T15:31:19.685ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
I am looking for Powerpoint presentations on Aerial Ladder operations. Preferably Mid Mount Tactics. If you have any type and would care to share it would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to enhance our training program.
I am looking for Powerpoint presentations on Aerial Ladder operations. Preferably Mid Mount Tactics. If you have any type and would care to share it would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to enhance our training program. Truck Op's and SOG'stag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-16:1219672:Topic:1290822009-03-16T01:24:46.948ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
Hi All...<br />
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My Dept is re-working all of our SOG's. I have been assigned Truck op's and High Rise. I was looking for other Dept's SOG's to compair and to be honest pick from the bast and use those in our Dept to improve the way or should I say the lack of a way we use our three trucks and manpaower. I do not want to steal them but give credit where credit is due. I believe truck work is very important and want to improve the way we do things here.
Hi All...<br />
<br />
My Dept is re-working all of our SOG's. I have been assigned Truck op's and High Rise. I was looking for other Dept's SOG's to compair and to be honest pick from the bast and use those in our Dept to improve the way or should I say the lack of a way we use our three trucks and manpaower. I do not want to steal them but give credit where credit is due. I believe truck work is very important and want to improve the way we do things here.