Have You Ever Used 2 1/2" Hose Inside a Private Home

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Permalink Reply by Nick Morgan on April 22, 2008 at 8:06pm

In our department there is a great reluctance to lead off with a 2 1/2 line on a well involved residential fire; and sometimes on commercial buildings too. I've been to a couple of heavily involved fires in 2 story buildings where the captain ordered the "big line" lead off, and the fire was knocked down very quickly, followed by an interior attack with the 1 3/4 preconnect. I've also seen us lose some buildings because, I believe, a 1 3/4 line was lead off when the volume of fire on arrival should have dictated the larger line be used. Several of you have hit the key problem here and that is misinformation and lack of training in using the 2 1/2 line on residential fires. Even though we have 1 3/4 preconnect lines, the pump pressures used on them only allow for a flow of 100 to 125 gpm at best, and sometimes less when operated by an inexperienced pump operator. The 2 1/2 line is big, bulky, heavy and difficult to manuever, especially inside a residential structure, but through training and practice, companies can overcome their reluctance and develop the skills to make it work. It also goes back to captains and acting captains learning their fire behavior and building construction so that they can "read" a fire better and make the judgement call about which line to use more accurately. Then, if the companies have trainned for this operation periodically, it won't seem like such a foreign concept to stretch a "big line" into a fire for an interior attack when the situation warrants it. When it comes down to it, we're back to training and education for firefighters and their officers. Everything seems to start there. Stay safe!!

Permalink Reply by Jim Miller on April 22, 2008 at 9:21pm

A short piece of rope or webbing out of your pocket works just fine, a hose tool and they are simple. I generally use the short rope I have to control doors with. Whatever you do keep it simple and all members of your crew should be doing the same thing. Don't let it be fly by your pants, train on it!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Joe McClelland on April 23, 2008 at 2:19pm

The 2.5" line is tough to move, but with training, it is an awesome tool that will knock down a ton of fire quick. GPM puts out BTU'S. So if the line is to heavy, train on how to move it. Our rigs have 2 pre-connected 1.75" lines, next to them is the 2.5" pre-connect. It is up to the officer on which line to pull. We very often will pull the 2.5" if the fire is large. It dosen't get charged until the line is good and ready to be advanced in. Take a little more time and get your line "snaked" the right way to ensure the best angle to be pulled into the building. This is key since the line is so heavy. Do not forget the reach of this type of line either. A 2.5" line with even a fog nozzle will reach the back of just about any house inside. Again, moving it is a tall order, but spacing the members out properly and training on how to move the line is a must. When trained on enough, a 3 man crew can move the line straight or up stairs pretty easy. Like I said, we use it very often. We also train our members on how to advance the line often.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Wyant on May 14, 2008 at 11:21am

I have never personally used a 2.5 but what i have used is a 2 in. it gives you the munoverability of an 1-3/4 but alot more knockdown power

Permalink Reply by Chris Poyner on June 9, 2008 at 1:43pm

I personnaly have not advanced a 2 1/2 line into a private home.What my engine co does and we find it effective,if were first due and we have a well involved fire ( showing out of mutiple windows)we will use our 2 1/2 as a exterior ''blitz'' attack knock the hell out of it and stretch the 1 3/4 line inside and "clean it up".It definetly takes training and getting over the fear of it.This works very well with limited manpower or if the second due engine will be delayed.

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on June 11, 2008 at 7:46pm

Ray
Yes. It was not that bad, as we stretched dry as far as we could. The fire had control of 4 rooms in the front apartment, and the LT ordered it. We got into position and knocked it down and held the stairs. Then we stretched a 1 3/4" off the tip and finished it up. A over kill maybe, but the fire looked pretty big! We have done this many times since.

Permalink Reply by 27Commish on October 26, 2008 at 7:44am

When I first joined my local FD we had two choices for hand lines, 1 1/2 and 2 1/2. It was the call of the chief or officer in charge as to what was going to be used, of course this would be predicated on the fire load during his initial size up.
Many a residential structure that we pulled up on we used a 2 1/2 for fire supression. Although cumbersom the body of fire was knocked down quickly and we were able to save the home owner lots of grief.
The big drawback is it is labor/manpower intensive! Going up or down stairwells as you can imagine was tough work, and the big item was having the bodies to ensure the handline was steadily advancing and not hung up somewhere between the engine and the seat of the fire.
If I did not happen to be on the nozzle I always tried to back down the hand line to make sure the crew could advance without having the hoseline hang up or have kinks.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on October 27, 2008 at 12:41pm

The back up man understanding where to be placed on the hose oine is criitcal for the nozzle to advance. I like to be on the last turn of the hose beofre the nozzle for the best ability to help provide more hose to the nozzle man. I can then get the kinks out and fill the rooms between my posititon and the nozzle man with available hose.
The 2 1/2 is definetly labor intensive , but the time lost with a short crew is gained when the fire goes out quickly

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on October 27, 2008 at 1:14pm

Ray
I want to point out that one technique we used on a fire, (not by design I will admit) was when we pushed in, the Nozzle FF blew right through the wall with the SB 2 1/2", and knocked down the fire without haveing to make a bend. This was a sheet rocked building, and I don't think it would have worked on plaster/lath. The 2 1/2" took the heat right out of the building. If people are wondering about the water damage we created,,,yup....we created it. But the fire went out, no one got hurt, and we all went home after the tour!

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on October 27, 2008 at 1:37pm

Yeah Russ that's what I'm saying . The fire goes out right now !!. No fooling around with advancning through a bunch rooms. When we've used a 2 1/2 we knock everything down. I like to use it when we see there are persons trapped in the windows ( or a legitimate report ) with fire pushing out over their heads.

Permalink Reply by Russ Chapman on October 27, 2008 at 9:20pm

Jim
I know this is about 2 1/2", but do you guys have use a static skid load of 2 - 1 3/4" hoselines filled out with a wye / thief and then 2 1/2"? I thought I seen that once.

Permalink Reply by Jim Mason on October 29, 2008 at 7:58pm

We use 1 - 1 3/4 connected to a gated wye and that connects to 700 feet of 2 1/2 . The second side of the wye can have nother 1 3/4 connected to it by another company. All of this is on a skid load on one side of the rear step. The other 2 beds are 4 inch LDH and another 700 feet of 2 1/2 with a 250 adjustible gpm fog. The wye is connected to a smooth bore 1 1/4 nozzle on the 2 1/2

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