Poor Leadership - Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-29T15:58:51Zhttps://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?commentId=1219672%3AComment%3A318310&id=1219672%3ATopic%3A148170&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAs the question is as broad a…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-13:1219672:Comment:3183102011-04-13T18:52:31.682Z3ignpvlx7k6wahttps://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_3ignpvlx7k6wa
<p>As the question is as broad as the responses you've recieved thus far. I'll give the broad answer that will still work....</p>
<p>Stress by definition is self-induced; meaning it's our reaction to the stressors around us. We can't force an individual to change. We can make their life miserable, along with everyone around them (ourselves included), but I can assure you it won't help. </p>
<p>Todd, Jason and Kevin are on the money. The Chief can only be as good as his team. If the…</p>
<p>As the question is as broad as the responses you've recieved thus far. I'll give the broad answer that will still work....</p>
<p>Stress by definition is self-induced; meaning it's our reaction to the stressors around us. We can't force an individual to change. We can make their life miserable, along with everyone around them (ourselves included), but I can assure you it won't help. </p>
<p>Todd, Jason and Kevin are on the money. The Chief can only be as good as his team. If the leader is inept, it will catch up to them without mutiny and regardless of political affiliation. Yours is to take care of business. Do what is right to take care of firefighters and Mrs Smith. Dot the i's and cross the t's, document your recommendations. Neither cover for nor scuttle the officer's actions they will speak for themselves.</p> Hi,
Leadership is a word FF…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-16:1219672:Comment:2748272011-02-16T18:27:18.847ZPierre-Louis LAMBALLAIShttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/PierreLouisLAMBALLAIS
<p>Hi,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Leadership is a word FF love to use. They also love to use the "brotherhood" word, we are all brother and we are all opened minded... I'm European, working for more than 10 years on structural firefighting and many talk to me as an expert on this subject. Each time I tried to have a serious talk with US FF about the use os nozzle, after 3 or 4 messages, they just have insult to throw but no explanation...</p>
<p>In you case or rather in the case of the relation ship with…</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Leadership is a word FF love to use. They also love to use the "brotherhood" word, we are all brother and we are all opened minded... I'm European, working for more than 10 years on structural firefighting and many talk to me as an expert on this subject. Each time I tried to have a serious talk with US FF about the use os nozzle, after 3 or 4 messages, they just have insult to throw but no explanation...</p>
<p>In you case or rather in the case of the relation ship with the chief, just ask yourself if he is ready to ear you "constructive criticism". Because the main problem is not the way you talk, but the way the one to whom you talk, understand what you're saying.</p>
<p>Maybe you think your criticism are "contructive". But are they really? Are you in a "struggling" system, or are you going to work together?</p>
<p>Maybe juste have a commitee to see the futur: a fire service, like an organisation or a company, must have a futur vision. Time, money, people. What are the objective of you fire service? Responding to a fire? Yes, of course, but do you have a training planing for one year? Maybe your chief don't know really where to go. But do you know where are you going?</p>
<p>Project links people together. Project are motivation.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We can go back to the nozzle. I will just tell you something. And you will try to see how you understand that: "A fog nozzle can extinguish a fire in about 10 times less than a solide bore, with about 20 times less water. And if you want, I can instruct you".</p>
<p>Is it criticism? Is it positive? Is it negative? Not so easy....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Best regards and welcome to the marvellous word of human contact :-)</p>
<p>Pierre-Louis</p>
<p> </p> Ben-The brothers that have an…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-13:1219672:Comment:2691912011-02-13T15:12:51.436ZRON KANTERMANhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/RONKANTERMAN
<p>Ben-The brothers that have answered you show lots of wisdom. (I even liked the "walk the plant' remark. Hey, gotta have some fun, right?) Morale is an attitude, a way of life and a culture. Those of us involved in the Everyone Goes Home program struggle every day with LSI#1-Changing the culture if the fire service. It's a culture change for the firehouse but all of the members have to want it too. Are there any others who agree with your current leaders? If so, change is even more difficult.…</p>
<p>Ben-The brothers that have answered you show lots of wisdom. (I even liked the "walk the plant' remark. Hey, gotta have some fun, right?) Morale is an attitude, a way of life and a culture. Those of us involved in the Everyone Goes Home program struggle every day with LSI#1-Changing the culture if the fire service. It's a culture change for the firehouse but all of the members have to want it too. Are there any others who agree with your current leaders? If so, change is even more difficult. It can be done but it's like eating an elephant, you have to take one bite at a time. Gather your hungry allies and make your changes despite what the current dictatorship may be doing. Don't be insubordinate and don't undermine but if there are safety related issues, demand answers and accountability. You can have high fire department morale despite bad leaders. I like what Brandon said about uniting and approaching department leaders. Sometimes, enough is enough. When you approach however, do it professionally and with finesse. Never let it be said that in fact you attempted a "hostile take over." That won't work in anyone's favor. Above all, you and the other members must remember why you signed up in the first place. Protect your community, keep training and keep your knife and fork. Good Luck.</p>
<p>Ron </p> Like the guys above said, the…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-12:1219672:Comment:2667162011-02-12T16:59:23.929Zthomas p broderickhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/thomaspbroderick
Like the guys above said, the Junior officers need to keep the crews together when their are problems up above. It's like the "Breaking Point" episode in Band of Brothers. Sgt Lipton keeps the guys together and is the real leader while Lt Dike is flaking out and leaving the men. A good Lt or Senior man in the firehouse can help keep the focus on training, staying safe and keeping morale up until the time for change comes.
Like the guys above said, the Junior officers need to keep the crews together when their are problems up above. It's like the "Breaking Point" episode in Band of Brothers. Sgt Lipton keeps the guys together and is the real leader while Lt Dike is flaking out and leaving the men. A good Lt or Senior man in the firehouse can help keep the focus on training, staying safe and keeping morale up until the time for change comes. As others have said in this p…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2010-01-11:1219672:Comment:1664972010-01-11T16:45:02.761ZJason Buisthttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/JasonBuist
As others have said in this post, leaders are not made by title. Title gives individuals position power which can be easily abused. It is up to person with the position to see it as an oportunity to advance their crew and department into greatness. When these people fail and drift into apathy and complacency,it is your dutyto lead from the middle. This is a concept that has been lost for a long time in our Fire Service. We have done ourselves a diservice by promoting technically competent…
As others have said in this post, leaders are not made by title. Title gives individuals position power which can be easily abused. It is up to person with the position to see it as an oportunity to advance their crew and department into greatness. When these people fail and drift into apathy and complacency,it is your dutyto lead from the middle. This is a concept that has been lost for a long time in our Fire Service. We have done ourselves a diservice by promoting technically competent officers that do not have any leadership training or experience. We have put them into a position where 90 percent of the job is management and administrative duties, but cripple them without the tools to acctualy do the job.<br />
Lead from the middle. You have already identified the gap in leadership. This is the first step. Now fill in the gap by leading those firefighters who need it. Train those young people, show them the right way. make them competent firefighters and you will find out something about yourself. you have become the leader that your department needs and without even having a title!<br />
<br />
DTRT and stay safe just a little advice first ho…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-11-10:1219672:Comment:1626952009-11-10T01:24:33.119ZChief Harold Eatonhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ChiefHaroldEaton
just a little advice first how do you elect your officers that really huge and do you have a board of directors if not maybe you shoul consider getting one for such things as this with your chief from past experience that i have had the election of your officers is the first way to stop the chief from tearing down your organization because if the moral of your department is down then it follows you all the way to each scene you go to. This is where you get people hurt, so guess alot of getting…
just a little advice first how do you elect your officers that really huge and do you have a board of directors if not maybe you shoul consider getting one for such things as this with your chief from past experience that i have had the election of your officers is the first way to stop the chief from tearing down your organization because if the moral of your department is down then it follows you all the way to each scene you go to. This is where you get people hurt, so guess alot of getting your moral back starts with getting rid of all your leadership problems, then go from there. I have approx. 90 volunteers so believe me i know what it's like to not have any morale but we do great but it's very important i listen to my members and their imput and concerns that way i can keep the morale of this organization up and possitive so if i can be of any assistance please let me know. Hey Ben, like the brothers ha…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-08-20:1219672:Comment:1571772009-08-20T00:12:53.575ZBrandon Erbehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BrandonErbe
Hey Ben, like the brothers have said you've got to keep your head up. That being said I know exactly what you are going through. We are a combo dept with 1 chief, 1 D/C, 12 fulltime FFs, and around 35-40 pocs. We have had some very rough years here recently. These guys are right it won't last forever but it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. I don't know your exact situation but I will tell you what we have done around here lately. After years of being beaten down,…
Hey Ben, like the brothers have said you've got to keep your head up. That being said I know exactly what you are going through. We are a combo dept with 1 chief, 1 D/C, 12 fulltime FFs, and around 35-40 pocs. We have had some very rough years here recently. These guys are right it won't last forever but it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. I don't know your exact situation but I will tell you what we have done around here lately. After years of being beaten down, treated like kids and personal vendetta style management we have finally come together as one united group and put our big boy pants on to let the district and the chief know we are tired of the way things have been run. (This just recently happened so we dont know what the total fallout will be). This was met, as everything has been, with anger from the uppers. But I think we have shown by uniting the union and the poc association together, that we are serious in turning this dept around. This has been a real boost to morale in the firehouses. Only time will tell if this is going to work or if they are going to go back to their same old ways and at the end of the day in all reality it is their dept to run. I agree with Blake from Topeka sometimes you may have to get political but hopefully that is your last reort. Good luck and Stay safe.<br />
<br />
Erbe I am new to joining in on the…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-08-11:1219672:Comment:1509372009-08-11T18:41:30.975ZMark Wadsworthhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/MarkWadsworth
I am new to joining in on these type of discussions but want to say that I have enjoyed the responses by everyone so far. It seems that it is all about your own attitude that you bring to the table. Sometimes it can get frustrating and it seems that your actions go unappreciated and the morale keeps declining. However, you can only control your own little world, be positive and hope that it carries over to others. I have always subscribed to the phrase " you can not demand respect, it has to be…
I am new to joining in on these type of discussions but want to say that I have enjoyed the responses by everyone so far. It seems that it is all about your own attitude that you bring to the table. Sometimes it can get frustrating and it seems that your actions go unappreciated and the morale keeps declining. However, you can only control your own little world, be positive and hope that it carries over to others. I have always subscribed to the phrase " you can not demand respect, it has to be earned" The good leaders I have worked for and strive to be, are the ones that you respect because of their actions, not their position. Great topic, that is without a doubt affecting departments all over the country. You have to believe that no o…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-08-11:1219672:Comment:1509322009-08-11T17:11:18.624ZBill Sullivanhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BillSullivan
You have to believe that no one person is responsible for the success or failure of an organization, particularly in the fire service. If one person can make or break an organization, you have a very weak organization to begin with. Unfortunately, like many others, I have experienced periods of time within my career where my department has suffered through poor to no leadership from the top. It is at those times when the others in leadership positions; deputy chiefs, company officers and/or…
You have to believe that no one person is responsible for the success or failure of an organization, particularly in the fire service. If one person can make or break an organization, you have a very weak organization to begin with. Unfortunately, like many others, I have experienced periods of time within my career where my department has suffered through poor to no leadership from the top. It is at those times when the others in leadership positions; deputy chiefs, company officers and/or senior people, have to step up and move the department forward. It is too easy to fall in with the group of people who do nothing more than bemoan the lack of leadership at the top, yet do little to nothing to help move the organization forward. Remember, you can become part of the solution or become part of the problem. Look around you, the ones that are complaining the most are accomplishing the least. Watch the quiet ones, the ones who are coming to work everyday and doing their jobs, there you will find your leaders. It isn't easy to keep your head up and remain positive during these times but it is far from impossible. Certainly, it is during these times when new true leaders are born and discovered. Unfortunately there are times…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-07-29:1219672:Comment:1500202009-07-29T19:21:34.290ZWalter D. Pattersonhttps://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_3289m44heeeo3
Unfortunately there are times when there are no other options other except to put up with it or leave. Trying to change some people, and/or organizations is like running head on into a wall over and over.....eventually you realize that the wall will not go away and your head starts to hurt. I belonged to a volunteer company where morale was low....rules were either not enforced or enforced unfairly depending on "who" you are. Basically, leadership was there in title only and even though a lot…
Unfortunately there are times when there are no other options other except to put up with it or leave. Trying to change some people, and/or organizations is like running head on into a wall over and over.....eventually you realize that the wall will not go away and your head starts to hurt. I belonged to a volunteer company where morale was low....rules were either not enforced or enforced unfairly depending on "who" you are. Basically, leadership was there in title only and even though a lot of people wanted to wear the white hat, they either didn't want the responsibility, or would not accept the responsibility that goes with the position. After a year of frustration, I realized that I could not change the organization, so I resigned and my headache went away.