Bugles? WTF!! - Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-29T15:55:02Zhttps://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?commentId=1219672%3AComment%3A259240&id=1219672%3ATopic%3A169471&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=no"To me, there are far greater…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-06:1219672:Comment:3152152011-04-06T23:54:16.183ZBob McGorkichttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BobMcGorkic
<p><em>"To me, there are far greater things for us to worry about than what individual areas call the same thing."</em></p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>Many of our traditions and terms come from the mid-19th century.</p>
<p>As we discuss "bugles" vs. "trumpets" remember that we discussing the vernacular of perhaps 200 years ago. The meaning of words change. Try not to think of the difference between a bugle and a trumpet today. </p>
<p>It is possible that most people had never seen a trumpet, but most…</p>
<p><em>"To me, there are far greater things for us to worry about than what individual areas call the same thing."</em></p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>Many of our traditions and terms come from the mid-19th century.</p>
<p>As we discuss "bugles" vs. "trumpets" remember that we discussing the vernacular of perhaps 200 years ago. The meaning of words change. Try not to think of the difference between a bugle and a trumpet today. </p>
<p>It is possible that most people had never seen a trumpet, but most men who served in the Civil war were familiar with a bugle?</p>
<p>A definition of a trumpet, even today, is "a bugle with valves."</p>
<p>A hearing aid was called and "ear trumpet" even though it obviously had no valves. <br/>Check these out: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/12/vintage_ear_trumpets.php" target="_blank">http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/12/vintage_ear_trumpets...</a></p>
<p>I am guessing that to most people the in the mid-19th century, the terms "bugle" and "trumpet" were <strong>interchangeable</strong>. In fact, they still are today. This is why we have "drum and bugle corps." (Which have valves, BTW.)</p>
<p>see: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_and_bugle_corps_%28modern%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_and_bugle_corps_%28modern%29</a></p>
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<p>This discussion is over a tiny difference in semantics that possibly didn't exist the 19th century, and might not even exist today. It is <strong>ridiculous</strong> to get upset about the tiny difference between a trumpet and a bugle. This is especially true if we consider that the speaking device we are describing more closely resembles a bugle than a trumpet. If anything, "speaking trumpet" is the misnomer.</p>
<p>And don't forget the corn chips. (Why do you think they called them that? Could it be that they are a BUGLE shape? )<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.oppictures.com/singleimages/240/AVTSN28086_1_1.JPG"><img class="align-center" src="http://www.oppictures.com/singleimages/240/AVTSN28086_1_1.JPG?width=100" width="100"/></a>And BTW- the "Megaphone" probably wasn't invented until 1878 by Thomas Edison.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> In my part of town, we used t…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-06:1219672:Comment:3145942011-04-06T22:45:25.205Z26sa8u1o15jy2https://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_26sa8u1o15jy2
<p>In my part of town, we used to have bars i.e. military, for Captains and "bugles" for everybody higher. B.C.'s had 2 crossed Bugles and then you added additional crossed bugles for each rank above. The old quote was "Bugles over bars" to show that the B.C. was in charge. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We have since switched to Bugles for everybody. They have always been called bugles in my department as far as anybody here can remember and that included a guy that had 40 plus years. I have no idea why…</p>
<p>In my part of town, we used to have bars i.e. military, for Captains and "bugles" for everybody higher. B.C.'s had 2 crossed Bugles and then you added additional crossed bugles for each rank above. The old quote was "Bugles over bars" to show that the B.C. was in charge. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We have since switched to Bugles for everybody. They have always been called bugles in my department as far as anybody here can remember and that included a guy that had 40 plus years. I have no idea why Captains had bars for so long. I'd imagine that somebody at sometime in charge liked the military. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I guess that to me it's not a big deal that we each use some different terminology. I know that they are called speaking trumpets it's written into our specific department history even though we still call them bugles. I guess that the way I see it is that because I can and do value and respect others traditions and values that I don't get caught up in these types of arguements. If you choose to call it something different than me, that's ok. If your tradition is different than mine it doesn't make either of us better or worse, just different. Isn't that part of the fun of tradition? You know, seeing how other people talk and do things. To me, there are far greater things for us to worry about than what individual areas call the same thing. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Have a safe and happy Masters weekend!!!</p> Brother.. they are not bugles…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-02:1219672:Comment:3101882011-04-02T03:21:41.141ZRon Ayottehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/rONaYOTTE
<p>Brother.. they are not bugles nor are they speaking trumpets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>They are plungers and funnels....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A Lt. has one plunger on his badge and collar pins, because he deals with company level crap. The LT decides to study for Captain, so the plunger then becomes a funnel to cram information for the exam, some of it being useless and having nothing to do with the job.</p>
<p>The LT get promoted to Captain, and now has 2 plungers, as he derls with his own company level…</p>
<p>Brother.. they are not bugles nor are they speaking trumpets.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>They are plungers and funnels....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A Lt. has one plunger on his badge and collar pins, because he deals with company level crap. The LT decides to study for Captain, so the plunger then becomes a funnel to cram information for the exam, some of it being useless and having nothing to do with the job.</p>
<p>The LT get promoted to Captain, and now has 2 plungers, as he derls with his own company level crap plus crap from the LTs.</p>
<p>The captain then decides to go for the gold... 2 plungers become 2 funnels to cram even more useless information into the remamnts of the brain from the last test cycle for promotional purposes.</p>
<p>This vicious cycle continues until one reches the 5 plunger stage... for the person wearing 5 plungers deals with crap from the Firefighters, LTs, Captains, Deputies and the politicians!</p> You know, honestly, I had nev…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-04-02:1219672:Comment:3102782011-04-02T00:34:35.861ZAdam Lee Jenningshttps://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_2i3c5r609qfi1
You know, honestly, I had never really paid attention to the bugles thing. Wow, but now that you mention it, yeah, it does kind of sound stupid. Especially since they were never, ever called bugles, they were speaking trumpets. The one thing that just irritates the crap out of me are firefighters, mostly newer guys, that don't differentiate between an engine and a truck. They call all apparatus fire trucks. I can't stand that, even my 3 year old, at the time, could tell you the difference…
You know, honestly, I had never really paid attention to the bugles thing. Wow, but now that you mention it, yeah, it does kind of sound stupid. Especially since they were never, ever called bugles, they were speaking trumpets. The one thing that just irritates the crap out of me are firefighters, mostly newer guys, that don't differentiate between an engine and a truck. They call all apparatus fire trucks. I can't stand that, even my 3 year old, at the time, could tell you the difference between a truck and an engine, the truck had the big ladder on it and the engine didn't. But by God, they can tell you what temperature a spark from static electricity is, haha. OK. As much as I hate to addr…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-03-12:1219672:Comment:2872372011-03-12T05:28:27.708ZBob McGorkichttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BobMcGorkic
<p>OK. As much as I hate to address this comment.</p>
<p>Todd,</p>
<p>1. Your comment belongs on a different topic. This topic is about tradition, terminology and semantics. Your comment appears to be about leadership or promotion practices.</p>
<p>2. It also appears to express some bitterness that you should address in some healthy constructive way, if possible. Perhaps you can find a forum that will help you with your concerns.</p>
<p>3. Your assertion that people are promoted by the "good…</p>
<p>OK. As much as I hate to address this comment.</p>
<p>Todd,</p>
<p>1. Your comment belongs on a different topic. This topic is about tradition, terminology and semantics. Your comment appears to be about leadership or promotion practices.</p>
<p>2. It also appears to express some bitterness that you should address in some healthy constructive way, if possible. Perhaps you can find a forum that will help you with your concerns.</p>
<p>3. Your assertion that people are promoted by the "good old boy" system is inaccurate in most (or at least many) modern fire departments. People are often promoted by either written exams or assessment centers. If you ARE one of those unfortunate firefighters who serves in a department (or state) where people are hired, fired, promoted or demoted at the pleasure of the chief, you have my sympathy. There are things you can do, such as adopt civil service, but I know that you probably live in fear of your job if you even brought it up. My point is still that the situation you describe is not the norm. It is far from being "the problem in today's fire service."</p>
<p>4. If you used your real name with this post, posting negative comments on a forum is not the the path to promotion. Everything you say, and how well you say it, will be here for someone to find, FOREVER.</p>
<p>3. Work on your writing skills. This is something you will need either to get promoted or when you are promoted. Try to think of every email, text, or even forum post as something that represents your communication skills. I am sure your will agree that this is an important ability for an officer.</p>
<p>Let us not waste other people's time by continuing to discuss this here. However, if you either find a topic about your situation, or start one, please let me know and I will be happy to join it.</p> I understand the hole bugle t…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-03-11:1219672:Comment:2864952011-03-11T21:08:10.258ZTodd Jenningshttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ToddJennings
I understand the hole bugle thang. But this is something that is erned, not just given. But that is the problem in todays fire service. We promote people on the good old boy system. That sucks. When you get bugles you should have be given them for your knowledge and skills in the service. As far as for the decision being the one with the most bugles, that is not true. i ubderstand thatthe chief has the final say, but we must take in to conceration everyone. There are pleanty of…
I understand the hole bugle thang. But this is something that is erned, not just given. But that is the problem in todays fire service. We promote people on the good old boy system. That sucks. When you get bugles you should have be given them for your knowledge and skills in the service. As far as for the decision being the one with the most bugles, that is not true. i ubderstand thatthe chief has the final say, but we must take in to conceration everyone. There are pleanty of firefighters out there that dont have bugles but are the best of the best. i would listen to them in a heart beat. Who care about the bugles. I understand but as long as t…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-03-10:1219672:Comment:2868412011-03-10T00:12:54.816ZDylan Liebenowhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/DylanLiebenow
I understand but as long as the fire service has been around we have had different terms for devises we use based on geographical location or even just traditions in different departments. Your "Speaking Trumpets" are my "bugles" and another's "bull horns". I have herd all three and most common is bugles. So don"t start yelling yet and com at these mixing of terms as the charter that makes up so much of our history.
I understand but as long as the fire service has been around we have had different terms for devises we use based on geographical location or even just traditions in different departments. Your "Speaking Trumpets" are my "bugles" and another's "bull horns". I have herd all three and most common is bugles. So don"t start yelling yet and com at these mixing of terms as the charter that makes up so much of our history. I checked on the picture of a…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-27:1219672:Comment:2782062011-02-27T04:33:31.179Zmike bryanthttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/mikebryant
<p>I checked on the picture of a speaking trumpet and that is what is on my Collar Brass.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have been told they are "bugles" however looking at the pics they are clearly "speaking trumpets." As such, I will make the correction when I tell others what they are. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was also told the story of the Maltese Cross as being from Malta, however when I researched it farther I found that the original cross was more similar to the Iron Cross used by the German Army (like…</p>
<p>I checked on the picture of a speaking trumpet and that is what is on my Collar Brass.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have been told they are "bugles" however looking at the pics they are clearly "speaking trumpets." As such, I will make the correction when I tell others what they are. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was also told the story of the Maltese Cross as being from Malta, however when I researched it farther I found that the original cross was more similar to the Iron Cross used by the German Army (like the picture posted earlier) and traced the roots back to the symbols used in the military. Honestly, I am hesitant that the Iron Cross would be welcomed as much as the Maltese Cross has been due to the history.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I agree that we must maintain traditions, and rank symbols is a tradition that should be maintained. We all know at least (1) tradition that should be changed. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks for the conversation stimulator..... Oh, and my .02 is that you must be losing it, because I would have simply walked over to him and advised him other wise. No yelling, no drama, using tact, would have given him an option to correct his information and provided him with some additional knowledge in this area.</p> I could not agree more. I wis…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-25:1219672:Comment:2781882011-02-25T20:43:30.233ZBob McGorkichttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BobMcGorkic
<p>I could not agree more. I wish I could have been as succinct as you were.</p>
<p>(I am sure everyone else probably wishes so too.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I could not agree more. I wish I could have been as succinct as you were.</p>
<p>(I am sure everyone else probably wishes so too.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> I've always heard them called…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2011-02-25:1219672:Comment:2778702011-02-25T20:32:14.079ZKaren Corriganhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/KarenCorrigan
I've always heard them called bugles, but it's probably and east coast verses west coast thing. In history, it's been proven above that the words are interchangable. Not sure why so much hostility needs to wasted on it. I think better use can be found for this energy. As long as they aren't called plungers, or something else not referencing the megaphones used.
I've always heard them called bugles, but it's probably and east coast verses west coast thing. In history, it's been proven above that the words are interchangable. Not sure why so much hostility needs to wasted on it. I think better use can be found for this energy. As long as they aren't called plungers, or something else not referencing the megaphones used.