Roof ladders on Metal roofs - Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-29T14:46:24Zhttps://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?commentId=1219672%3AComment%3A127633&id=1219672%3ATopic%3A125613&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis is a common problem in o…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-10:1219672:Comment:1276332009-03-10T07:54:50.908ZBen Fleaglehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/BenFleagle
This is a common problem in our area. Lots of metal roofs, old and new, commercial and residential. Commercial for obvious reasons and residential because its cheaper and lasts a long time. Back to the original issue, if you set the hooks, (really pull down on the roofer when you place it) it will usually hold well enough for you to make it to the peak and really set them in good.<br />
However, that being said, ....metal roof systems (especially peaked and residential) are not the safest place to…
This is a common problem in our area. Lots of metal roofs, old and new, commercial and residential. Commercial for obvious reasons and residential because its cheaper and lasts a long time. Back to the original issue, if you set the hooks, (really pull down on the roofer when you place it) it will usually hold well enough for you to make it to the peak and really set them in good.<br />
However, that being said, ....metal roof systems (especially peaked and residential) are not the safest place to be. In our area we frequently find ourselves dealing with them in spite of the hazard, because they are frequently in use with log cabin homes and retrofitted roofs on more modern homes. They are combined with foam and OSB to make a fairly low profile ventilation space which in effect is a "cold" roof, vs. a hot roof where there is not air gap. Sometimes fire will travel around in these roof systems and play hell to catch.<br />
So our experience is often in winter, usually with 2-3 feet of snow load and a lot of metal to remove. We have found the unpleasant way that the roofer will ride the snow, (with the snow acting like a fulcrum) and is akin to snowboarding. The snow will actually prevent the ladder from being well seated. The unsuspecting firefighter places weight upon the base of the roofer and this brings the hooks up off the peak and ladder and firefighter skate to the ground. When you can, use the aerial tip or bucket. This has been something that…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-05:1219672:Comment:1266582009-03-05T02:57:19.312ZChris B. Goforthhttps://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_1fhpq940jskxq
This has been something that my company has talked about while sitting around the table. I'm glad you brought this up and I've been able to get some other input. Metal roofs are something that we are seeing more and more often in my area on residential structures. As a ventilation and ladders instructor one idea that we have tossed around is trying to secure the ladder over the peak and one person climbs the ladder to the peak while another holds lower part of the roof ladder. Once at the…
This has been something that my company has talked about while sitting around the table. I'm glad you brought this up and I've been able to get some other input. Metal roofs are something that we are seeing more and more often in my area on residential structures. As a ventilation and ladders instructor one idea that we have tossed around is trying to secure the ladder over the peak and one person climbs the ladder to the peak while another holds lower part of the roof ladder. Once at the ridgeline the firefighter takes his pick head axe and makes a couple purchase points in the roof. Then the ladder is reset in these two holes. This should give some more stability to the ladder. We have not had the ability to have a house to try this on but if anybody has the opportunity give it a try and see if it works. Like in several of the other post the best option may be to try to horizontally ventilate instead of putting someone on these type roofs. So when you set the hooks on…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-04:1219672:Comment:1265402009-03-04T14:24:05.667ZJay Robinsonhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/JayRobinson
So when you set the hooks on a normal roof, from the ground ladder you push the hooks just a bit past the peak then forcefully (as you can) pull back on the roofer to 'set the hooks' or allow the hooks to bite into the comp/shingles right? Sometimes when I've done this, I haven't felt too comfortable with how the hooks have set. So before the next guy comes up, I scamper to the ridge and stomp the hooks into the material. My question is ( and sorry to be asking more questions than answering)…
So when you set the hooks on a normal roof, from the ground ladder you push the hooks just a bit past the peak then forcefully (as you can) pull back on the roofer to 'set the hooks' or allow the hooks to bite into the comp/shingles right? Sometimes when I've done this, I haven't felt too comfortable with how the hooks have set. So before the next guy comes up, I scamper to the ridge and stomp the hooks into the material. My question is ( and sorry to be asking more questions than answering) what is the guage of metal they are using? Can it be pierced with moderate pressure? Maybe what whe do in addition to a roof ladder is to take a halligan tool up and sink the spike either as an added foot hold or into the rung spaces of the roofer. Looks like we'll need to do some training on this to see what works. I own a home with a metal roo…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-03:1219672:Comment:1263002009-03-03T16:41:16.067ZJeff Boonhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Thirdeast
I own a home with a metal roof. It is nearly impossible to walk on these roofs in normal, dry conditions. I can't imagine wearing fire boots and forget it if they are wet.<br />
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My roof has sky-lights so best bet would be to knock those out first or horizontal vent.<br />
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Thanks for bringing this discussion up. I look forward to hearing the different opinions.
I own a home with a metal roof. It is nearly impossible to walk on these roofs in normal, dry conditions. I can't imagine wearing fire boots and forget it if they are wet.<br />
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My roof has sky-lights so best bet would be to knock those out first or horizontal vent.<br />
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Thanks for bringing this discussion up. I look forward to hearing the different opinions. Thanks Drew... I believe this…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-03:1219672:Comment:1262432009-03-03T04:24:10.797ZBrandon Roarkhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/brandonroark551
Thanks Drew... I believe this was the fear that my brother had when starting this topic. Im not a truckie so I had no advice, and I have yet to respond to a fire in this type of residential building, however i have seen them going up in my city. Thanks again for the documentation.<br />
I am interested in knowing if anyone has actually vented this type of roof on a residential structure?
Thanks Drew... I believe this was the fear that my brother had when starting this topic. Im not a truckie so I had no advice, and I have yet to respond to a fire in this type of residential building, however i have seen them going up in my city. Thanks again for the documentation.<br />
I am interested in knowing if anyone has actually vented this type of roof on a residential structure? The roof in the photo is an e…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-03:1219672:Comment:1262412009-03-03T03:49:45.269ZDrew Smithhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/DrewSmith
The roof in the photo is an example of the roof system I was refering to earlier. These roofs are framed the same as ordinary residential roofs (which could be truss or dimensional lumber). Clips nail the panels underneath the vertical seams. If such a roof is seen on a pole barn, suspect trusses underneath and skip sheathing or furring strips support the panels.<br />
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From FireChief.com...<br />
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Alert: Ladders Slip Off Metal Roofs<br />
Jun 18, 2004 10:55 AM<br />
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On May 15, two firefighters were seriously…
The roof in the photo is an example of the roof system I was refering to earlier. These roofs are framed the same as ordinary residential roofs (which could be truss or dimensional lumber). Clips nail the panels underneath the vertical seams. If such a roof is seen on a pole barn, suspect trusses underneath and skip sheathing or furring strips support the panels.<br />
<br />
<br />
From FireChief.com...<br />
<br />
Alert: Ladders Slip Off Metal Roofs<br />
Jun 18, 2004 10:55 AM<br />
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On May 15, two firefighters were seriously injured in Wyoming, Ohio, after falling 30-feet from a roof ladder while participating in a ventilation drill. According to Chief Robert Rielage of Wyoming Fire-EMS, the ladder’s hooks slipped from the metal roof cap while being used on the metal roof of the Colerain Township (Ohio) Fire Training facility. The metal roof system of the training facility was very similar in design to roof systems being used in commercial and residential applications. Chief Rielage and Chief G. Bruce Smith of the Colerain Township Fire Department caution all fire service agencies to evaluate the use of roof ladders for their ability to remain affixed on metal roofs, especially, but not limited to, those designed for commercial use.<br />
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A longer article with much more detail is located at <a href="http://firechief.com/technology/ar/firefighting_metal_metal/">http://firechief.com/technology/ar/firefighting_metal_metal/</a> We don't like to see people o…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-03:1219672:Comment:1262332009-03-03T00:39:20.937Zmatt dayshttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/matt19
We don't like to see people on lightweight metal construction. Due to the collapse factor. I agree, if you need to vent use the platform. As for the picture, the metal construction is placed over the OSB. You should be able to use the roof ladder there without slipping due the gravitational pull as well as the angle, but horizontal vent might be the best route depending on fire conditions.
We don't like to see people on lightweight metal construction. Due to the collapse factor. I agree, if you need to vent use the platform. As for the picture, the metal construction is placed over the OSB. You should be able to use the roof ladder there without slipping due the gravitational pull as well as the angle, but horizontal vent might be the best route depending on fire conditions. Thanks for adding this photo.…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-02:1219672:Comment:1261942009-03-02T22:21:14.668ZMarty Mayeshttps://community.fireengineering.com/xn/detail/u_200blnsu5b1gs
Thanks for adding this photo. My district has many houses with metal roofs, added on top of the shingle roof.<br />
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Marty
Thanks for adding this photo. My district has many houses with metal roofs, added on top of the shingle roof.<br />
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Marty Since this topic is up, lets…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-02:1219672:Comment:1261892009-03-02T22:13:58.073ZBrandon Roarkhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/brandonroark551
Since this topic is up, lets clearify a few things? are we questioning rather to vent a metal pitched roof on a commerical or residential building? what are the concerns vs. a normal pitched roof on either type of building? I know that a popular new trend is to replace an old residential roof with a metal roof, so I am sure this can be informative to us all.<br />
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maybe this should be a whole new topic?<br />
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…<p style="text-align:left"><img src="http://www.coolflatroof.com/pics/standing-seam-metal-roofing.jpg"></img></p>
Since this topic is up, lets clearify a few things? are we questioning rather to vent a metal pitched roof on a commerical or residential building? what are the concerns vs. a normal pitched roof on either type of building? I know that a popular new trend is to replace an old residential roof with a metal roof, so I am sure this can be informative to us all.<br />
<br />
maybe this should be a whole new topic?<br />
<br />
<p style="text-align:left"><img src="http://www.coolflatroof.com/pics/standing-seam-metal-roofing.jpg"/></p> My thought on this issue is w…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-03-02:1219672:Comment:1261642009-03-02T19:16:46.975ZSteven C. Hamiltonhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/StevenCHamilton
My thought on this issue is why are you trying to vent a pitched metal roof? I am a traditional northeast firefighter and vertical ventilation is very popular but I would think twice about putting personnel on a metal roof. Your Lieu and Sgt may not be providing you too much info because they would not perform that type of operation.<br />
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If you have to vent the roof and you have a platform aerial I would do everything possible to work off the bucket. Knock off scuttle hatches with a pike, take out…
My thought on this issue is why are you trying to vent a pitched metal roof? I am a traditional northeast firefighter and vertical ventilation is very popular but I would think twice about putting personnel on a metal roof. Your Lieu and Sgt may not be providing you too much info because they would not perform that type of operation.<br />
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If you have to vent the roof and you have a platform aerial I would do everything possible to work off the bucket. Knock off scuttle hatches with a pike, take out sky lights, or some other natural covered opening. I would not put people on a metal roof with an active fire under you.<br />
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If the situation is that critical then vent for life and take out as many horizontal windows as the fire, water supply, and personnel will allow.<br />
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Stay low, stay safe!