Ground Ladders ... need your opinion - Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-29T15:09:57Zhttps://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?commentId=1219672%3AComment%3A120372&id=1219672%3ATopic%3A120324&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHey Don good point.
Probably…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-04:1219672:Comment:1209832009-02-04T13:52:50.168ZBruce Clarkhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Bruce52
Hey Don good point.<br />
Probably more important than where to hold the ladder is how to place your feet. You have more of a chance of falling when you don't slide your heel all the way against the rung.<br />
<br />
Be safe,<br />
Bruce Clark<br />
PBCFR 33
Hey Don good point.<br />
Probably more important than where to hold the ladder is how to place your feet. You have more of a chance of falling when you don't slide your heel all the way against the rung.<br />
<br />
Be safe,<br />
Bruce Clark<br />
PBCFR 33 Ric,
We teach hands undernea…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-04:1219672:Comment:1209312009-02-04T02:52:40.758ZDon Kaderabekhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/DonKaderabek
Ric,<br />
<br />
We teach hands underneath the beams to pull you into the ladder. Also to lock in your heels to the rungs. We have had alot snow this winter and that action of locking in your heels prevents many falls. Fraternally Yours, Don Kaderabek
Ric,<br />
<br />
We teach hands underneath the beams to pull you into the ladder. Also to lock in your heels to the rungs. We have had alot snow this winter and that action of locking in your heels prevents many falls. Fraternally Yours, Don Kaderabek Ric,
This is a very good topi…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-03:1219672:Comment:1207792009-02-03T15:25:01.890ZBruce Clarkhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Bruce52
Ric,<br />
This is a very good topic. I don't really think that ladders is the whole issue here though. Anytime an instructor gives a student only one way to complete a task, no matter what it is, they are limiting the student's chances for success. There are many different ways to accomplish just about everything we do, why limit climbing a ladder to only one way?<br />
As far as your question about one way being safer than the other, for me holding on to the rungs with no tools feels better. If I'm…
Ric,<br />
This is a very good topic. I don't really think that ladders is the whole issue here though. Anytime an instructor gives a student only one way to complete a task, no matter what it is, they are limiting the student's chances for success. There are many different ways to accomplish just about everything we do, why limit climbing a ladder to only one way?<br />
As far as your question about one way being safer than the other, for me holding on to the rungs with no tools feels better. If I'm carrying a tool I like the rails. While that feels right for me, it does not make it right for everybody else.<br />
I hope this helps you with your research.<br />
<br />
Be safe,<br />
Bruce<br />
PBCFR 33 I teach both methods for clim…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-03:1219672:Comment:1207342009-02-03T06:03:59.305ZShareef Abdu Nurhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/ShareefAbduNur
I teach both methods for climbing, but I personally prefer the rails because you never lose that point of contact and when they do have to carry a tool, it is not a new climbing style for them. The safest method is the one that makes the FF feel the most comfortable. I would advise to train how to carry and set up the ladders with the amount of people that would actually do it on scene. Do it safely but realistically. Please advise them of the different methods to foot a ladder and really drive…
I teach both methods for climbing, but I personally prefer the rails because you never lose that point of contact and when they do have to carry a tool, it is not a new climbing style for them. The safest method is the one that makes the FF feel the most comfortable. I would advise to train how to carry and set up the ladders with the amount of people that would actually do it on scene. Do it safely but realistically. Please advise them of the different methods to foot a ladder and really drive that point home. You seem to be heading in the right direction and please keep us posted as to your success and the feedback of your class. Plus, if you or the ladder fa…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-03:1219672:Comment:1207182009-02-03T03:41:55.610ZLarry Lasichhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Larry77
Plus, if you or the ladder falls, the tool will be right next to you, instead of you being able to throw it away.<br />
The exception to this might be having something heavy, like a K-12, on a strap when you go up the ladder.
Plus, if you or the ladder falls, the tool will be right next to you, instead of you being able to throw it away.<br />
The exception to this might be having something heavy, like a K-12, on a strap when you go up the ladder. The reason that the rails is…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-03:1219672:Comment:1207152009-02-03T03:37:57.610ZGary Rauchhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/GaryRauch
The reason that the rails is safer is that you will always have 3 points of contact on the ladder. Especially when climbing with tools. You should NEVER have a tool in a truck belt or waist strap of your SCBA when climbing a ladder. The reason for this is that some tools are heavier at the head (axes) and when climbing I have seen the climbing firefighter kick the end of the handle with their heel and the weight of the tool slide out of the belt and fall to the ground.
The reason that the rails is safer is that you will always have 3 points of contact on the ladder. Especially when climbing with tools. You should NEVER have a tool in a truck belt or waist strap of your SCBA when climbing a ladder. The reason for this is that some tools are heavier at the head (axes) and when climbing I have seen the climbing firefighter kick the end of the handle with their heel and the weight of the tool slide out of the belt and fall to the ground. The answers to each depend on…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-01:1219672:Comment:1205072009-02-01T19:08:46.094ZRick Decoriehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/RickDecorie
The answers to each depend on where the class is taking place and who the students are. In Illinois, it is acceptable to teach either the rung or the rail method of climbing. I prefer using the rails as I usually had a tool. I don't think one method is any less safe than the other. What ever makes the firefighter feel safer is the one he/she should use.
The answers to each depend on where the class is taking place and who the students are. In Illinois, it is acceptable to teach either the rung or the rail method of climbing. I prefer using the rails as I usually had a tool. I don't think one method is any less safe than the other. What ever makes the firefighter feel safer is the one he/she should use. This is a great discussion. I…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-01:1219672:Comment:1204802009-02-01T17:46:09.785ZNate Brownhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/NateBrown
This is a great discussion. I would like to ask everyones opinion on the rail method:<br />
<br />
Do you think 2 hands on the rails is considered acceptable for your 2 points of contact? If so would you feel comfortable if both of your feet slipped and you were on the 3rd section of a 35' extension ladder? When I talk about 2 points of contact, I mean one hand and one foot. I think the rail method allows firefighters to climb the ladder faster than they can climb safely. It invites foot slippage in my…
This is a great discussion. I would like to ask everyones opinion on the rail method:<br />
<br />
Do you think 2 hands on the rails is considered acceptable for your 2 points of contact? If so would you feel comfortable if both of your feet slipped and you were on the 3rd section of a 35' extension ladder? When I talk about 2 points of contact, I mean one hand and one foot. I think the rail method allows firefighters to climb the ladder faster than they can climb safely. It invites foot slippage in my opinion. I teach both methods, because…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-01:1219672:Comment:1204672009-02-01T17:07:35.816ZNate Boycehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/NateBoyce
I teach both methods, because what is more comfortable for one person, may be very uncomfortable for another, and working on a ladder is no place for "shakey legs". Obviously, the rail method is neccessary for carrying tools, however, it can also be used when not carrying a tool. The others have all hit on the two points of contact, this is the most important piece of the puzzle. Safety is always number one. I also make sure to pound into the students head about properly footing the ladder.…
I teach both methods, because what is more comfortable for one person, may be very uncomfortable for another, and working on a ladder is no place for "shakey legs". Obviously, the rail method is neccessary for carrying tools, however, it can also be used when not carrying a tool. The others have all hit on the two points of contact, this is the most important piece of the puzzle. Safety is always number one. I also make sure to pound into the students head about properly footing the ladder. Make sure that they put their weight into it, and not just standing there looking cool. Another tip for getting onto a roof from a ladder. Climb to a rung above the roof line, and step down onto the roof. This lowers the risk of catching your foot on the roof line and possibly tripping or losing your balance.<br />
<br />
As far as whether its the guys on my dept. or a class full of recruits, the teaching is the same. Basics don't change just because you have experience in the fire service. I believe that sometimes the basics tend to get forgotten or overlooked, and this is what contributes to fireground injuries or worse.<br />
<br />
Thanks, Be Safe...<br />
<br />
Nate B. I was taught at the Fire Serv…tag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-02-01:1219672:Comment:1204232009-02-01T13:13:53.807ZLarry Lasichhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Larry77
I was taught at the Fire Service Training School at Great Falls, MT and, believe me when I say, I didn't have time to ask why. If I remember, it's because your hands are never uncurled from the rail, so you never loose a two hand hold. The reason it sticks is because; if you climbed the rungs, you failed the tactic; after you had done the thing.<br />
<br />
Of course, if you are bringing up a tool, it's going to be in an occupied hand and you are going to slide it up the outside of the rail.<br />
<br />
Whichever…
I was taught at the Fire Service Training School at Great Falls, MT and, believe me when I say, I didn't have time to ask why. If I remember, it's because your hands are never uncurled from the rail, so you never loose a two hand hold. The reason it sticks is because; if you climbed the rungs, you failed the tactic; after you had done the thing.<br />
<br />
Of course, if you are bringing up a tool, it's going to be in an occupied hand and you are going to slide it up the outside of the rail.<br />
<br />
Whichever way you teach them to do it, it's all good as long as you are teaching the other safety stuff.<br />
Larry<br />
<cite>Nate Brown said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://community.fireengineering.com/forum/topic/show?page=1&commentId=1219672%3AComment%3A120389&id=1219672%3ATopic%3A120324&x=1#1219672Comment120389"><div>I have always thought that rungs are safer than rails because you can overlap your fingers and thumb on a rung, but not a rail. If you were to slip and only had grasp of the ladder with one hand, which would you rather have a hold of, the rung or the rail? I teach my firefighters to keep their hands on the rungs. If they are carrying a tool I teach them to keep one hand on the rung and the hand carrying the tool to slide behind the rail. Most importantly always have 2 points of contact at all times.</div>
</blockquote>