Air Management - The Seattle Guys Discussions - Fire Engineering Training Community2024-03-19T11:04:43Zhttps://community.fireengineering.com/group/airmanagementtheseattleguys/forum?feed=yes&xn_auth=noMAYDAY POLICY Do you have firefighting ops switch to different channel when a MAYDAY is calledtag:community.fireengineering.com,2013-03-17:1219672:Topic:5785142013-03-17T00:30:59.700ZJim Duffyhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/JimDuffy
<p>We are rewriting our MAYDAY SOP Do you have firefighting ops change channel and if you do what problems have you encountered. Is everyone on the channel they are supposed to be on?</p>
<p>We are rewriting our MAYDAY SOP Do you have firefighting ops change channel and if you do what problems have you encountered. Is everyone on the channel they are supposed to be on?</p> Air Mangementtag:community.fireengineering.com,2009-07-10:1219672:Topic:1480362009-07-10T13:15:57.751ZJames campbellhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/Jamescampbell479
HFD is currently revising our air mangement guideline. I am heading up this endeavor and was looking for any information you could previde. I have the book by the Seattle Guys, and was interested in any upcoming classes associated with this topic.<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your assistance,<br />
<br />
<br />
James Campbell<br />
DC-28D Houston
HFD is currently revising our air mangement guideline. I am heading up this endeavor and was looking for any information you could previde. I have the book by the Seattle Guys, and was interested in any upcoming classes associated with this topic.<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your assistance,<br />
<br />
<br />
James Campbell<br />
DC-28D Houston ROAM Presentationtag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-10-03:1219672:Topic:839322008-10-03T18:10:12.892ZLisa Fairfieldhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/LisaFairfield
Thank you for the presentation you guys did this week. It is everything I have been trying to communicate to my department for the past year and has fallen on deaf ears. Some of the stuff you guys said about firefighter's thinking that they won't be able to work as long or are wasting air by leaving early is exactly the feedback I have been getting and it frustrates the hell out of me. I am sending all my department members a link to the presentation in the hopes that when they hear it from you…
Thank you for the presentation you guys did this week. It is everything I have been trying to communicate to my department for the past year and has fallen on deaf ears. Some of the stuff you guys said about firefighter's thinking that they won't be able to work as long or are wasting air by leaving early is exactly the feedback I have been getting and it frustrates the hell out of me. I am sending all my department members a link to the presentation in the hopes that when they hear it from you guys they will finally buy in. Thanks again. Motivation and "Buy In"tag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-05-03:1219672:Topic:492582008-05-03T16:36:26.042ZLisa Fairfieldhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/LisaFairfield
I am in the process of putting training and policy together with regards to NFPA 1404 and ROAM for my department. Besides what is in the Air Management book, I am looking for ways to get buy in on this stuff. I know I will meet alot of resistance, especially with the part about not using the last 25% of your air for operational firefighting. It is easy to say that it is an NFPA standard and so we should follow it. What is the best approach for this? What has worked or not worked for you guys?
I am in the process of putting training and policy together with regards to NFPA 1404 and ROAM for my department. Besides what is in the Air Management book, I am looking for ways to get buy in on this stuff. I know I will meet alot of resistance, especially with the part about not using the last 25% of your air for operational firefighting. It is easy to say that it is an NFPA standard and so we should follow it. What is the best approach for this? What has worked or not worked for you guys? It CAN be done! You can do it...tag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-04-25:1219672:Topic:366742008-04-25T04:03:04.872ZMike Gaglianohttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/MikeGagliano
We received the following posting to our website... We hope it inspires others to make Air Management a part of business as usual on the fireground...<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>I attended your lecture at FDIC and read your book cover to cover in 3 days. Amazing. Within a week, our fire department agreed to implement an air management policy I created from the main points of your book. We hope to continue to push your lessons throughout our county. Thanks brothers!<br />
<br />
<br />
Air Management Best Practice<br />
<br />
Policy: To ensure…</i>
We received the following posting to our website... We hope it inspires others to make Air Management a part of business as usual on the fireground...<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>I attended your lecture at FDIC and read your book cover to cover in 3 days. Amazing. Within a week, our fire department agreed to implement an air management policy I created from the main points of your book. We hope to continue to push your lessons throughout our county. Thanks brothers!<br />
<br />
<br />
Air Management Best Practice<br />
<br />
Policy: To ensure that firefighters have the best opportunity to escape from IDLH environments without running out of breathable air, and to prevent the inhalation of carcinogenic and deadly smoke and toxins.<br />
<br />
To strive towards compliance with NFPA 1404 (air management)<br />
<br />
Rationale: Today’s furniture, plastics and other materials burn much hotter and are carcinogenic. One breath can kill a firefighter instantly or later in the future.<br />
<br />
Most firefighter deaths inside structures occur as a result of a firefighter running out of air.<br />
<br />
Procedure: The Fire Department adopts the “Rule of Air Management”. The rule states as follows:<br />
<br />
“Know how much air you have in your SCBA and manage that air so that you leave the hazardous environment BEFORE your low air alarm activates.”<br />
<br />
1. Firefighters will check their air before they enter the structure<br />
<br />
2. Firefighters will take at least one breath of air before they enter structure, thus testing their SCBA<br />
<br />
3. Firefighters will consider a low air alarm as an emergency, just as with a PASS alarm.<br />
– A low air alarm should signal a lost or trapped firefighter<br />
<br />
4. Firefighters will check their air at intervals during the operation.<br />
– Officers/leaders will ensure that no bell sounds during operations<br />
– Officers/leaders will take momentary breaks to have all persons check their air and report on air.<br />
<br />
5. Each firefighter will ensure that 75% of SCBA’s air is utilized for entry, work and exit. 25% of SCBA air shall be reserved for emergencies to the firefighter.<br />
<br />
6. Line Officers/Interior Crew leaders will notify exterior operations that their team is at 50% air. Exterior Operations will begin to mobilize a replacement crew, with the time factor depending on the length of time to reach the replacement point of the interior crew.<br />
<br />
7. Firefighters WILL leave the structure before the low air alarm activates. This accomplishes 2 goals:<br />
- Firefighters will have reserve air in case of an emergency occurring while they are leaving the area, such as getting lost, disoriented or trapped<br />
- Low air alarms will signal a firefighter in distress and will stop being ignored as a nuisance alarm.<br />
<br />
** If a low air alarm sounds, check on the firefighter**<br />
<br />
8. Engine company firefighters should carry 35 – 50 feet of search rope to be able to search off of a hose line, when reasonable, to investigate a low air alarm.<br />
<br />
9. Firefighters should check remaining air pressure every 5 minutes or less, depending on work load.<br />
– If the work intensive a task is, as performed by a single firefighter, the more frequently checks have to be made<br />
– The department will use similar terms to describe air levels:<br />
<br />
• Full, ¾ full. ½ full, ¼ full (aka “time to leave”)<br />
<br />
10. The amount of air remaining for the company equals the lowest amount of air in any single firefighter’s SCBA.<br />
<br />
11. Leaving the IDLH area: Determining the amount of time to dedicate to exit. Depends on factors:<br />
– How long is company from entry point<br />
– How long did it take to get to our present position, and will that time increase due to lower visibility, tired firefighters, changed conditions?<br />
– Who has the lowest air pressure remaining and how long will it take him to get to the low air alarm (note: not to the point of expending that air!)<br />
<br />
12. Roles of Incident Command/Operations<br />
<br />
Maintain situational awareness:<br />
– Ensure sufficient manpower to replace firefighters low on air<br />
– Obtain progress reports from crews, especially those using SCBA<br />
– Identify those persons/crews low on air<br />
– Start priority rescue for persons/crews low on air<br />
– Ask line officers for CARA Report (see next slides)<br />
<br />
13. Roles of Line Officers/Interior Crew Leaders<br />
<br />
Manage air supply brought to fire-fight<br />
- Maintain 75% of each firefighters air for entry, work and exit<br />
- Notify exterior operations when the lowest team member’s air reaches 50%<br />
- Reserve 25% for emergencies<br />
- Rotate personnel to conserve air of working firefighters<br />
- Provide timely progress reports to IC<br />
- Determine whether entire team should exit (or just 2 members?) Best Practice: Entire team.<br />
- If a team member works into their reserve air and their low-air warning bell begins to ring in the hazard area, the officer/crew leader shall report over the radio to the IC their unit signature, their location, that a team member’s low-air warning bell is ringing, and an estimation of how close they are to the exit.<br />
<br />
Provide progress reports to Incident Command<br />
- Utilize CARA<br />
<br />
• Conditions: what do you have?<br />
• Actions: what are you doing?<br />
• Resources: what do you need?<br />
• Air: what is the current status of your team’s air<br />
<br />
Example:<br />
Engine 1 has a heavy smoke condition with moderate heat on the 2nd floor (CONDITIONS) advancing an 1 ¾ hand line (ACTION), requesting immediate ventilation and assistance with primary search (RESOURCES); our air is at 75% (AIR)<br />
<br />
14. Roles of firefighters<br />
- Be READY<br />
<br />
• Do you have your RADIO (R)<br />
• Do you have the proper EQUIPMENT (E)<br />
• Have you checked your AIR (A)<br />
• Do you know your DUTIES (D)<br />
• YES? Go! (Y)<br />
<br />
Before exiting the vehicle, each firefighter should be asked if they are READY!<br />
- Use common hand signals<br />
<br />
• Firefighters should be trained in easily recognizable hand signals, including:<br />
<br />
§ Full air, ok to enter (thumbs up)<br />
<br />
§ Three quarters cylinder remaining (two fingers, five fingers)<br />
<br />
§ Half cylinder remaining (five fingers, then closed fist)<br />
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§ Need to go now (pointing to exit repeatedly)<br />
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15. Overhaul: Firefighters will always wear SCBA while present in the IDLH atmosphere, even where fire has been extinguished<br />
<br />
b>Brad Pinsky</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Ride to the sound of the guns!<br />
<br />
Mike, Phil, Steve and Casey - The Seattle Guys Hello Seattle Guys!tag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-04-15:1219672:Topic:317432008-04-15T23:04:20.241ZKevin Moellerhttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/KevinMoeller
Wondering if you guys could get me an outline or something from the class at FDIC, looking to pass the info on in our RIT ops classes up in Tomahawk where I am a RIT Instructor. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. My email is Kevinmoeller@new.rr.com
Wondering if you guys could get me an outline or something from the class at FDIC, looking to pass the info on in our RIT ops classes up in Tomahawk where I am a RIT Instructor. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. My email is Kevinmoeller@new.rr.com Air monitoring and SCBAtag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-04-14:1219672:Topic:304562008-04-14T00:47:52.103ZRudy Horisthttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/RudyHorist
Our department's respiratory policy includes air monitoring (4 gas) before removing our SCBA at structure fires. This has been a positive step forward from the days of "the smoke doesn't look bad anymore so I can take it off".<br />
<br />
We are now researching doing additional monitoring for other gases (i.e. cyanide) as well as the use of APR's when appropriate and safe. Has anyone else tackled these topics?<br />
<br />
I have also attached our department's respiratory protection policy in case it is of value to…
Our department's respiratory policy includes air monitoring (4 gas) before removing our SCBA at structure fires. This has been a positive step forward from the days of "the smoke doesn't look bad anymore so I can take it off".<br />
<br />
We are now researching doing additional monitoring for other gases (i.e. cyanide) as well as the use of APR's when appropriate and safe. Has anyone else tackled these topics?<br />
<br />
I have also attached our department's respiratory protection policy in case it is of value to anyone. We will be updating it soon to include the Rule of Air Management. The "Basic Skills" of air managementtag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-03-26:1219672:Topic:185442008-03-26T22:11:43.212ZPhil Josehttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/PhilJose
Just thought I would tag on to the discussion Bobby started and focus in a little more.<br />
<br />
We advocate that Air Management (AM) is a basic skill. By that we mean that every fire fighter from the newest probie to the seasoned vet should be able to perform according to AM all the time. With that said there are always some basic skills necessary to perform the "task level" requirement of AM.<br />
<br />
To provide a comparison I would offer that putting up a ground extension ladder is a basic skill at the…
Just thought I would tag on to the discussion Bobby started and focus in a little more.<br />
<br />
We advocate that Air Management (AM) is a basic skill. By that we mean that every fire fighter from the newest probie to the seasoned vet should be able to perform according to AM all the time. With that said there are always some basic skills necessary to perform the "task level" requirement of AM.<br />
<br />
To provide a comparison I would offer that putting up a ground extension ladder is a basic skill at the "task" level. Before you can safely and effectively put up that ladder you need to know how to carry, raise, and extend the ladder. Then you must practice those skills till they are ingrained through muscle memory to the point that, on the fire ground, you can consider where to put the ladder, overhead lines, etc.<br />
<br />
So, what I am asking is:<br />
<br />
What are the "skills" you believe are necessary for firefighters to learn AM?<br />
<br />
I have my own set that I believe are necessary but want to throw this out to the masses before I opine on my own question.<br />
<br />
Phil, "TSG" Hydrogen Cyanidetag:community.fireengineering.com,2008-03-21:1219672:Topic:150052008-03-21T01:53:11.965ZMike Gaglianohttps://community.fireengineering.com/profile/MikeGagliano
Hey troops...<br />
<br />
Everyone is now fully aware that Hydrogen Cyanide is a nasty bugger. It is present at the earliest stages of combustion, causes havoc with our mental and physical abilities and is a proven cause of firefighter death.<br />
<br />
One of the prevailing solutions to resolving the Hydrogen Cyanide problem is to put detectors on those involved on the interior. My question is where are we going to place all the detectors for the various toxic, carcinogenic and ashpyxiating components of smoke…
Hey troops...<br />
<br />
Everyone is now fully aware that Hydrogen Cyanide is a nasty bugger. It is present at the earliest stages of combustion, causes havoc with our mental and physical abilities and is a proven cause of firefighter death.<br />
<br />
One of the prevailing solutions to resolving the Hydrogen Cyanide problem is to put detectors on those involved on the interior. My question is where are we going to place all the detectors for the various toxic, carcinogenic and ashpyxiating components of smoke that EVERYONE with a clue knows is present at every fire we go to these days?<br />
<br />
Where does the Benzene detector go?<br />
Where does the Phosgene detector go?<br />
Is a PAH detector feasible?<br />
And how effective are these detectors going to be getting banged around in the average fire?<br />
<br />
Why trust more technology when we can simply follow the ROAM and not breathe the poisons in the first place?<br />
<br />
Just askin....<br />
<br />
<br />
Mike