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I need some help,

My department has repolaced AFF with a product called f-500. The claims they make are pretty impressive. I have attempted to do some research on them and there is nothing i can find. If you ask a foam salesman they tell me that it is basically "snakeoil". I hat to base my purchaing decisions on just the words of a salesman.

We have not had a good flamable liquid fire in awhile so we have not had a chance to use it. I have used it on class A fires and it seems to work good on that, but the company is saying you can use in on any flamable liquid fire including Ethanol.

I would appreciate an insight that you guys could provide.
Thanks,

Dan Ryan

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Great advice, actually we did our own testing and the F-500 was unable to put out a gasoline fire, We had to foam it with AFF-AR. When it comes to foam I have learned that there are some very common mis conceptions.

You are right that, if allowed, the salesman will make thier product perform with some tricky tactics.

When dealing with a class B fire or flex fuel fire there is no substitute for AFF-AR.

Thanks brother


Dan Ryan said:
We have recently done some testing with F-500 and found that it would not put out a gasoline fire. We are going to make a video and document all this. would you like a copy of the video?

i suspect that this product should only be used on a class A fire but we are still testing it.
Dan, I would be very interested to see any video you have demonstrating F-500 on Class B fires. I've been searching for several years and there are plenty of videos regarding tire fires, but I don't see anything for class B fires. Thanks. Mike Norton e-mail mmn5600@aol.com
F-500 is great, though I'll be honest and say I've never tried the other products. Going from AFFF Foam to F-500 was a great choice, considering AFFF is also a corrosive and not easy to clean up. F-500 has the same corrosive qualities as water with a rating of 0, which the EPA loves. This makes for little or no collection of runoff at scenes (check with local/state laws regarding runoff containment and spill cleanup). I've used F-500 with two Depts. now on Class A and B (Diesel, Oil, and Gas) fires, including vehicle fires and the manufacturer is correct. Not only is there deep penetration of flammable liquids, but rapid cooling of the fire.

My biggest concern from reading the other comments is to make sure that the concentration and solution for the amount of F-500 you are using is correct. Here's what the F-500 manufacturer recommends:

Class A: 0.25% - 1%
Class B: 1% - 6%
Class D: 1% - 3%

My vote is YES for F-500.

Here's the link: http://www.hct-world.com/f-500

Nick
Dear Dan

I have done a lot of reseach on foam, due to the same problem you have had with salesmen. My Dept was faced with a Ethonal Plant opening in our fire protection area and all the salesmen tried telling me that they had the best product. I found out that F-500 is a great class A foam, but does not work well on hydrocarbons fire. The AR-AFF works well with A or B fires, but it cost a lot more. I have looked at all the UL listing and have spoke to other fire agencies for there professional opinion and have tons of info. You can e-mail me and I can tell you what you need to know. I think that all foams have thier purpose, it just depends on what the foam application is going to be used for.

My E-mail
JHiggins3@Rochester.rr.com
Take a look at Novacool foam.

Our Dept has been using FIREADE for 2 or 3 years now.  Must say its the best stuff i've seen.  Not only is it enviromentally safe but it does an awesome job, and its alright to just dump in the tank or use an inductor.  Like many i've read above it penatrates to cool the fire as well as extinguish.  When our salesman came down to demonstrate this he didn't have to "sell" it.  It sold itself.  One demo we did was to take a cut off 55 gal drum and put some water in it then dump a bunch of gas in it...light it and have an attack team go at it with a charged 1 3/4 line of water.  Took some time but they did put it out, but salesman walked over and as we knew would happen he relit it with ease, and now it was out of the drum as well and spreading.  Taking a small pressureized water can with a 6% mix he walked around and sprayed the fire out and we were unble to relight it.  SOLD  I don't know of a dept in SW wisconsin that isn't using this stuff right now and have had very good luck with it. 

 

http://fireade.com/

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADB298978

 

Look at page 5.

 

The first toxicity screen performed with FireAde 2000 had an unusual reaction with fish. After the fish had died the remains turned to a gel-like consistency. This result had never been observed before with any other agent. Additional analysis of the foam concentrate showed that the pH ( 12.4) was higher than the neutral pH indicated by the manufacturer. The manufacturer sent a second sample for testing and the first batch was sent back the manufacturer for analysis. The second batch of FireAde 2000 was closer to neutral; HOWEVER, this did not significantly improve the LC50 (74 to 92 ppm), indicating that the high level of toxicity was not due to pH alone.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA479808  - Tyndall AFB Test

FireAde 2000 AFFF LP contained a fluorinated surfactant, similar to what is found in 3M AFFF

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADB298978

Look at page 5.

The first toxicity screen performed with FireAde 2000 had an unusual reaction with fish. After the fish had died the remains turned to a gel-like consistency. This result had never been observed before with any other agent. Additional analysis of the foam concentrate showed that the pH ( 12.4) was higher than the neutral pH indicated by the manufacturer. The manufacturer sent a second sample for testing and the first batch was sent back the manufacturer for analysis. The second batch of FireAde 2000 was closer to neutral; HOWEVER, this did not significantly improve the LC50 (74 to 92 ppm), indicating that the high level of toxicity was not due to pH alone.



Jason T. Jean said:

Our Dept has been using FIREADE for 2 or 3 years now.  Must say its the best stuff i've seen.  Not only is it enviromentally safe but it does an awesome job, and its alright to just dump in the tank or use an inductor.  Like many i've read above it penatrates to cool the fire as well as extinguish.  When our salesman came down to demonstrate this he didn't have to "sell" it.  It sold itself.  One demo we did was to take a cut off 55 gal drum and put some water in it then dump a bunch of gas in it...light it and have an attack team go at it with a charged 1 3/4 line of water.  Took some time but they did put it out, but salesman walked over and as we knew would happen he relit it with ease, and now it was out of the drum as well and spreading.  Taking a small pressureized water can with a 6% mix he walked around and sprayed the fire out and we were unble to relight it.  SOLD  I don't know of a dept in SW wisconsin that isn't using this stuff right now and have had very good luck with it. 

 

http://fireade.com/

Sorry to revive an older thread.

F-500, like any suppression agent, needs to be applied correctly. Typically, if it does not put out a gasoline fire, the application is incorrect. F-500 needs a 1/4/40 ratio to be effective on hydrocarbon spills. 

For example: Say 1 gallon of gasoline is spilled on on fire.

You'll need 16 oz of F-500 and 5 gal. of water to extinguish the fire. You'll also need energy. The micelles of F-500 and water need to "break" open in order to encapsulate the hydrocarbons. 

Just make sure to use the agent properly. The LEL won't lie when you see how effective F-500 can be on any class of fire.

Hope this helps.


Ron Becknell said:

Dan,
I would love to have a copy of this video. I have had many salesmen try to tell me that the F-500 is the same as the MoicroBlaze, which I didn't think was true.
And if you are looking for just an AFFF that is reasonably priced I got a good deal on Buckeye Foam last year.

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