Pride, Honor, Respect, Tradition, Duty. Is it still taught to our people?

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Permalink Reply by Todd Trudeau on January 10, 2009 at 5:38pm

Art, I will agree with you in that the more senior members SHOULD be instilling the job and the "Art" (pun intended) of it. Unfortunately, in my place, that's just not happening. Admittedly, some of the middle of the road guys are attempting (myself included) but if they (we) don't get the support from the "leaders" and decision makers (Batt. Chiefs and Chief), what should we really expect to happen?

Let's face it, a probie shows up to work and hears his bosses say comments like "we're just here for a paycheck and a pension" or "don't listen to so and so or that officer because he don't know what he's talking about" followed up with "we never do it that way", he probably won't go above and beyond when the middle of the road guys are trying to make the difference and improve the operation as a whole. I believe everyone must contribute more than their share, however it ultimately starts at the top. The top sets the tone for the entire dept., much the same as the initial IAP, apparatus placement and stretch sets the tone for the entire operation.

Sorry for venting but I've been dealing with this type of mentality for a number of years and it's very frustrating. All you guys posting the positives of this job are very inspiring to me and I am continuing the fight in my little world. The tide is ever so slowly turning in the right direction but I'm a little to impatient I guess :). Thank you to years and years of not thinking "it" will happen here!

OK, I'm done. Whew!

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Permalink Reply by Rob Cannon on January 10, 2009 at 5:54pm

Todd,
I had the same problem when I went from paid-per-call to part time at a near by department, I felt like many of the guys were there for the paycheck and forgot about how much they used to love the job. I was very confused by this b/c I grew up in a dept. where we do it for little to nothing and felt good about it b/c we all just loved the job.

I walked into to a bigger town and it shed a much larger light on me. I was like a deer in the head lights... I found myself falling into that dangerous category of " not giving a *****" and I didn't like it. Unfortunately, I have since left that dept. after only one year of being there. I left b/c I was having a hard time finding someone to mentor me into the dept. additionally, I was being confused as the "GUY" that doesn't care or the "GUY" who "CANNOT" be taught anything. I tried my hardest to be the best I could there. Always first to step and do house duties, washn towels and even clear the Lt's dinner plate.

Instead, I found it hard to break habits from my other department. I was so used to doing things "another" way and getting a great big thanks from the chief and officers, but when I did something I was PROUD of there I didn't get that "atta boy" that helped fuel my love for the job.Instead, I would get a "beat the dead horse" talk about how things are done HERE, but with no REAL remediation to follow.

I made my mistakes there and awknowledge this. I have since attended some seminars, attended training, listen to the podcasts from Chief Lasky, Chief Goldfeder (among others), but most of all.... When I read the book "Pride and Ownership" it all made sense to me... Maybe I didn't fit in with that department.

I love EVERYTHING about the fire service, which has fuel my goal of getting my masters in Public Safety Admin/Fire Science. I joined this community soo I could connect with those experienced and veteran firefighters/officers who LOVE the job with same PASSION as I do. I am honored to be a member if this FireEngineering community!

With Respect,

-Rob

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Permalink Reply by Art Zern on January 10, 2009 at 6:04pm

Todd, Rob and gang,

Vent away..... I have been there as well. The only choice that I had and the you have is to do the right thing and show personal leadership. Seek continuous improvement and work with the other members of a similar mind (quietly if you must) to raise the level of expectations and performance. The day will come when you will promote and have the ability to influence a larger group. The bugles or bars that you will pin on your collar every day only give you the opportunity to do good work and have a positive influence on your members. The burden is on you to get the job done. These mutts you speak of are the enemy of the fire service. Make no mistake, these are the same mutts that seek to create an atmosphere of complacency and laziness. They do their work either actively or behind the scenes to lower the standards, downplay and diminish our performance and ultimately, destroy our respect and credibility in the public's eyes....and worst of all....we are left unable to perform our core mission in an efficient and effective manner.


The future is in your hands and the hands of brothers and sisters like you. Don’t give in and don’t give up. This service has been built through the effort, drive and blood of too many good and great firefighters to allow anyone to tarnish, diminish or damage in any way. Seek the company of other firefighters who feel the way you do, join a FOOLS chapter and KEEP THE FAITH.


Art

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Permalink Reply by Joe McClelland on January 10, 2009 at 6:12pm

AMEN BROTHER!!!

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Schwering on January 10, 2009 at 7:20pm

Joe, Like Everyone has talked about, for those of us that have been on the job for years, we owe it to the kids regardless of the generation, to pass on our knowledge. We learn everyday, they need to know we never stop learning. We are the mentors, so it's our job to find a way to teach, just like that officer we never liked taught us. Keep looking and Teaching Brother! Things will get better.

Stay Safe
Jeff

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Post on January 10, 2009 at 8:49pm

I work with a group of guys, who all buck for the senior man position. We have like 15 "senior men" on the job, just ask them and they can tell you how they fit in the mix. "senior to the shift, senior to the crew, senior to the contract, senior in civil service, senior to guys who were hired on a wednesday" all to do less. thats right, the senior man can cruise around on easy street.

I asked, why isn't a senior man teaching the new guys? Why do you guys Bi%^h about things, when you are supposed to be the ones keeping things in line? Where is the fire service that was passed down to you? Where did that enthusiasm go? Why are we stuck in an unfixable situation? Becuase we say things like "those kids are F@#$ up," and whatever other diatribe you guys here.

I reenforce my point, fix it from the ground up, show the love, show em up, and show em how easy it can be. Speak your mind, you're in good company here!!

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Permalink Reply by Shane Peterson on January 10, 2009 at 11:32pm

I don't think that the younger generation has any idea about the history. I think that we as "older" firefighters should share that history with the young ones that are coming up. I definitely see the generation gap in the fire service. Its important that we take the time and ask the older firefighters about fires they fought back in there time. Sit around and here there stories. Thats how history is passed on from generation to generation. I just think we need to try and spend some time with the young firefighters, whether they like it or not!

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Permalink Reply by Rob Cannon on January 11, 2009 at 4:09pm

Shane,

You may be right with some of the younger FF's, but for many of us (like me) that went through an excellant fire academy did spend an entire classroom session on history and tradition.

Yes, we should be discussing the past fires. I can recall a few times where I asked about past fires and I was told "You wouldn't understand".

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Permalink Reply by Shane Peterson on January 11, 2009 at 7:50pm

I understand what your saying Rob. And its a damn shame that someone said to you "you wouldn't understand". How do they know that you don't understand. Why dont' they take the time to help you understand.

I learnd alot from listening to my "elder" FF's. I guess you just have to find the ones that are willing to share with you.

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Permalink Reply by Rob Cannon on January 11, 2009 at 8:19pm

Shane,
We've been buds for a while now I consider you a seasoned FF, being on for 14 yrs. I respect your ability to maintain an open minded view. You show pride, ownership and all the above!

I have 3 Lieutenants here that are in thier position with no formal officer training, minimal leadership ability. I my area that could have disasterous consequences. It scares me when I have to suggest to MY lieutenant to call for a chopper on an MVA, upgrade to a box on a commercial fire and most of all... on weekend duty I have to round up the troops to clean floors, rigs and train. It's not always the case though... I have a Captain and a Lieutenant that I would trust with my life anyday. When it comes down to it, to many I am too rambuncious or "FISTY" FF; why? Because I like to train and train our cadets.

I have another thing to vent. about when I find the words to vent. it without showing ignorance. Thanks to all the veteran men/women on here that have embraced my passion. I look up to all of you to giude me into the future.


Respecfully,
Rob

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Permalink Reply by Joe McClelland on January 11, 2009 at 8:42pm

Keep doing what you are doing Rob. Just be carefull. A bonehead Lt. or Capt. are still a Lt. and Capt. Do not get into trouble because they are ignorant. Keep a low profile and still keep the faith. Don't mouth off to them or question them, get your chores and checks done, ask them if they have anything else for you to do, if not,, then tell them you will be on the drill floor with the cadets training, would they like to join you? After a few times, they may get the message. Maybe not, but put it in their laps to get out there and show what They know. Odds are they do not train because they are unsure of themselves.

Just keep on keepin' on Brother. Don't get in trouble and train the kids.
Good job Rob.
Joe

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Permalink Reply by Shane Peterson on January 11, 2009 at 8:51pm

Thanks Rob, I appreciate it. And you know I consider you a friend and I respect you for who you are and the FF you want to be. Any thing I can do to help you and quide you along your way, just holla!

Rob Cannon said:

Shane,
We've been buds for a while now I consider you a seasoned FF, being on for 14 yrs. I respect your ability to maintain an open minded view. You show pride, ownership and all the above!

I have 3 Lieutenants here that are in thier position with no formal officer training, minimal leadership ability. I my area that could have disasterous consequences. It scares me when I have to suggest to MY lieutenant to call for a chopper on an MVA, upgrade to a box on a commercial fire and most of all... on weekend duty I have to round up the troops to clean floors, rigs and train. It's not always the case though... I have a Captain and a Lieutenant that I would trust with my life anyday. When it comes down to it, to many I am too rambuncious or "FISTY" FF; why? Because I like to train and train our cadets.

I have another thing to vent. about when I find the words to vent. it without showing ignorance. Thanks to all the veteran men/women on here that have embraced my passion. I look up to all of you to giude me into the future.


Respecfully,
Rob

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