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Fire Based EMS
How many of you work with Firefighter/Paramedics who want nothing to do with riding a truck or engine and exclusively want to ride on the medic unit, ambulance, rescue or whatever you may call it? What does your department do with those folks?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brent Sanger on -
I am a Firefighter/Paramedic, and am blessed to be in that position in my department. In my department, because of mannng guidelines, the ambulance is the place to be if you want to do fire attack. The ambulance crew, if they do not have a patient when they arrive on scene at a fire, are on the nozzle headed in the door. We know we're firefighters first. That being said, I took a small break from the fire service recently to go work for a hospital-based EMS service, which opened my eyes up a lot. I realized in my pursuit of my fire certifications, I had let my medical skills lapse. That is probably the biggest problem with Fire-based EMS services (at least with mine anyways), in that they do not put as much emphasis on adequate maintenance and improvement of EMS skills, whether it be for the ambulance crew, or the EMTs and First Responders who ride on the engines. I hopefully will not start the Great Debate here over which is better, Fire-based or non Fire-based EMS services. All have their plusses and minuses, and all have a definite need wherever they are used. EMS is here to stay, and should be supported like any other part of any service. Yes it is young compared to the Fire Service, but it is no less a profession. Those that have the attitude that "I am a medic and that is all I am going to do" and are part of the fire service need to be asked why they are in the fire service and refuse to take part in the fire side. It may be it's outside their comfort level, and they need to move on, or some other reason. Whatever it is, it should be addressed.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on -
Thank you both for your replies....I would like to hear from as many folks as I can. I work for a department who does transport and don't get me wrong we have some great Firefighter/Paramedics and strive to be good at both jobs and then we have those who want to be paramedics with the fire department pay. I tend to get worked up more than I should with this issue, but it is something i truly believe in. I, like you Brent, tend to think that the medic guys get the nozzle more times than not if you really want it. But like I said before we have those that hang back until a lesser job is given. When it comes down to it I want a partner on the medic unit who will be there when i need him most on the fireground.
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Permalink Reply by Brent Sanger on
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In my department they have no choice. We have 2 people on the engine, so the squad crew is the interior attack crew, and usually the only one's inside the building. So we have to search, attach, vent, and keep ourselves safe, because there's no one to bail us out if we get in a jam.
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Permalink Reply by Brent Sanger on
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I am only a good Firemedic because of the Grace of God, who Called me to my profession. I couldn't do what I do as well as I do without His constant Guidance and Blessings. Some may say conceited, some may not. But everyone has a calling in life, this is mine.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Michael on -
I have worked in a fire service that provides ALS care for the last 22 years. The paramedics have been treated like the proverbial "red headed step child". When I was on the ambulance I loved the job, I was a paramedic before I was hired here, 20 years as a medic total. Now our department has several ex-paramedics in administrative positions and the "red headed child" syndrome is almost gone. Many of our fire company officers are paramedcs and we run 2 paramedic Engine companies.
The fire service is here to assist the citizens in their communities. The fire service, in my opinion, benefits greatly by having EMS.
In response to your question, I have never delt with a firefighter/paramedic who didn't want to work on the fire apparatus. The medics seem to be knowlegable and aggressive in their fire duties. We all train together and work together well. It is not all a bed of roses between the personnel but we have the same type of problems between engine and truck people.
I will say the busier we are, the less personnel problems we have.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Richardson on -
Hey Chris,
Great discussion Chris!
I am fortunate to work with Chris at a department that is truly blessed with great equipment and people. We have been a fire based EMS transporting department for about 14 years now. Within the last five years we have seen more and more paramedics on engines and ladders. I still function as a paramedic but I am a LT on an engine so I don't get to practice as much as I would like to.
The problem with firefighters that are paramedics not wanting to perform firefighter functions is multi-faceted. Leadership, hiring expectations, behavior expectations and accountability are among the big issues in my opinion.
If someone is making say $65,000 as a firefighter-paramedic and is unwilling to give 110% to their job they are always welcome to go back to the private ambulance gig for $30,000.
I hope I didn't offend anyone here.
BE SAFE...Scott
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Permalink Reply by Brent Sanger on
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Depending on the private service, you could make as much there as on the engine. I worked a private EMS service part time, and got paid more there than I did at my full-time county gig. But, I stayed with the county because the insurance through the private service was 3x what it was with the county, and covered less stuff. Not to mention I loved running 911 calls instead of transfers all the time.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Richardson on
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I wholeheartedly agree; you can make a tremendous amount of money in the privates. I simply mean to say that many firefighter paramedics do not appreciate how well we have it with the insurance, etc.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Lassiter on
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I happen to work with several people like this, I also work with paramedics who would rather be on the engine than the bus. My department usually responds as first responders on all medical calls. Jasper County Fire/Rescue provides the ambulances. I also work part time for the county when my schedule allows. Jasper County pays pretty good money, and there are those who want their main focus to be EMS. They are firefighters because it's a job requirement, and I can't blame them. We are blessed with having some excellent EMT-Ps, EMT-Is, and EMT-Bs on our ambulances. They are very good at what they do, and while the equipment may not be the latest and greatest, it's still pretty decent. Those who desire to work the ambulance are allowed to do so. Not to mention the fact that if you want to fight fire, the ambulance is a pretty good place to be as they do that a good bit.
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Permalink Reply by J Dixon on -
We are a fee for service County dept. that runs 16000 calls a year. We staff 10 medic units and 5 more ALS engines. We have ALS providers that "opt out" and no longer assist the dept in providing ALS coverage increasing the workload on the ones left. Add in the lack of either initiative or work ethic of the younger people coming in and we hire fewer ALS or ALS qualified to run the calls. And yes, EMS in fire service is still a bastard child that provides millions of dollars in funding that allows the firefighters to get new gear, start new training programs, buy new equipment for specialty services.
1.So while we're out there running our collective rear ends off so you can have more toys to keep from being bored... complain that we don't feel like playing your reindeer games when we're not sleeping, eating lunch 3 hours late, and buried in paperwork that has to be done perfectly so that the bills get paid....
2.Yes, we get paid more, we run more calls, have much more responsibility (lives are in our hands), are required to keep up much more training as our certifications lapse every 2-4 years (ACLS/PALS/ITLS/AMLS/ etc.). Add firefighter to our names and we're responsible for your job too which involves making up the training you had the opportunity to complete because you weren't running a med call. My 110% can't be measured the same way as your 110%.
You are obviously young in the service and haven't sat in the other seat yet. Eat your lunch on time and count your blessings.
This is what I get for reading these forums before I've had my morning coffee!!
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Permalink Reply by Chris Piepenburg on
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Mr Dixon,
I have been in the fire service for 13 years and have been a medic on an engine and ambulance, where I currently sit. The biggest problem I have is that there seem to be a number of medics who want nothing more than to ride on an ambulance. Their title is Firefighter/Paramedic, but for many it is a title alone. Many seem to come into the fire service for the pay and to not have to sit on a street corner waiting for a call, they could give a hoot less about doing the actual firefighter part of the job and this shows when it is time to fight a fire. You have the duty to be good at both parts of the job, the firefighter and the paramedic. And to me if you just want to be a paramedic who does not want to do fire please stay with the privates!
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Permalink Reply by Michael Ward on -
How about the firefighter/paramedic that got medic certification in order to get on the job and now refuses to make any effort at patient care ... to the point of being a member of an engine company first responder standing next to a person drenched in sweat complaining of trouble breathing. Care provided was a nasal cannula and assurances that ",,, the paramedics on the ambulance are on their way." There was ALS equipment on the rig that could have significantly improved the patient's condition, but this person did not think it would make a difference.
We have a cultural challenge. While the IAFC and IAFF promote the concept of fire-based ems, the message breaks down before it gets into the fire stations and on the streets.
To answer your question. The DEPARTMENT sets the standards that the COMPANY OFFICER is expected to enforce.
Now, there is a chance that the paramedic/firefighter may prefer to stay off the engine to avoid a daily dose of harassment, belittling or other activities that may make the paramedic/firefighter not feel safe as a member of the fire company. This goes beyond the normal ball-busting that is part of daily life.
Transport units spend most of their days outside of the fire station. That is one way to stay out of the fray.
Mike
22 years as a firefighter/paramedic in an urban county, including eight years as a company officer and four years as an ems administrator. County fire and rescue provides both first responder and transport.
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